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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 101 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: How about:

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Or

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next world championship's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Or

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that candidates cycle.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Or

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle's candidates tournament.>

Or something. I think my idea is right but I'm missing something.

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

The current construction, followed by your four tries:

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of the next cycle in a three player match tournament for the title, at the end of the following three year candidates cycle.>

#####################################

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle.>

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next world championship's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle.>

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that candidates cycle.>

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play a three player match tournament for the next cycle's title, against the new champion and the winner of that cycle's candidates tournament.>

###############################

I applaud your vigor, but I don't think we should assume the casual chess fan reading our article will know that the candidates cycle at this time was three years.

I strongly believe that this information must be in the final construction. The people who wrote the actual rule at FIDE certainly knew that the candidates cycle was three years long, but they still specifically included that information in the actual rule.

###################################

What about this version, which is similar to earlier tries, but uses fewer commas:

<If the champion lost, at the end of the next three year candidates cycle he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of that cycle in a three way match for the title.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Please check out this version of the draft, with respect to "numbering" and let me know what you think.

It is almost identical to the original version:

Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

Here is my try with an extra comma added:

<If the champion lost, at the end of the next three year candidates cycle he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of that cycle, in a three way match for the title.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: Or what about this version of <dak's> try, with "three year" added:

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of the next three year candidates cycle in a three player match tournament for the title.>

And the same version with another comma added:

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of the next three year candidates cycle, in a three player match tournament for the title.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: I like this version of <dak's> try best, so for now I put it in the mirror:

<If the champion lost, he had the right to play the new champion and the winner of the next three year candidates cycle in a three player match tournament for the title.>

Apr-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I like that construction.
Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

Your endorsement is more than good enough for me.

What a relief! As I mentioned earlier, I failed to understand easily the explanation given in <Averbakh's> memoir or in the <Tfs> report on the relevant FIDE conference, which <Tabanus> translated.

And <Tabanus> is an excellent English writer and fluent in Swedish.

The construction that is in the mirror now is a product of revision work by <Karpova>, <Ohio>, <dak>, and probably others I can't remember at the moment.

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

Ok here is the version I'd like to hand in today after I come home for work.

It's lunch time now in Korea.

Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951

Apr-28-14  Karpova: <Jess>

It looks fine now!

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

I can't thank you enough for your patience and hard work on editing this project and all of the others we've worked on so far.

Not to mention writing half of the drafts we have so far.

The WCC Project is lucky to have you.

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Colleagues, Soviet>

I'm sending the draft off to <crawfb5> now.

Thank you all for such sterling work! I'm sure that <David Bronstein> and <Mikhail Botvinnik> would be proud of you all.

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 has flown the coop...

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Soviet, Colleagues, Guest stars (most recently, TheFocus}>

I just updated our profile, which says this now:

#################################

**CURRENT DRAFT UNDER INSPECTION FOR PROMOTION: <Karpova and I have not decided yet, but we will let you all know soon.>

**DUE DATE- THE DAY I WILL SUBMIT THIS DRAFT TO <Daniel>: Submission Day <<<We don't know yet (Korean time)>>>

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: < Bronstein led by a point and needed only win once more, or draw twice in the last two games,>

Tiny last second quibble. Why is the word "once" needed? We certainly wouldn't say "win once more, or draw twice more..." And while we're at it, if the words "win" and "draw" are used, I'd like the imperative "to" to be included. It's a little pidgenish as is. Maybe either

<Bronstein led by a point and needed only one more win, (maybe even, shudder, we could remove a comma in this construction. Did I just say that?) or two draws in the last two games,>

Or

< Bronstein led by a point and needed only to win once more, or draw twice in the last two games,>

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Is it too late? Anyway, if not, my first one <could> remove the comma after "...one more win...", but then would need a comma added after "Bronstein led by a point..."
Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

Thank you for your substantive analysis of that passage- I'm not going to say you are wrong, but I am going to say you just missed the "E-bay" deadline by a whisker.

The passage as it is will stay, though likely it's not as good as your edit.

That said, it is grammatically correct and conveys accurate information, so we won't be trying to correct it now.

No style edits after the bird flies.

Now if it were a case of the "Queen's gambit"...

At any rate thanks man, all around.

Apr-28-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Colleagues>

**CURRENT DRAFT UNDER INSPECTION FOR PROMOTION: <Karpova and I have not decided yet, but we will let you all know soon.>

**DUE DATE- THE DAY I WILL SUBMIT THIS DRAFT TO <Daniel>: Submission Day <<<We don't know yet (Korean time)>>>

Apr-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Comrades>

The next draft in line for promotion will be Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910.

The time frame will be <two weeks> starting *after* <Daniel> promotes and then finishes correcting any errata for Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951.

Apr-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <but the negotiations broke down when Janowski insisted on 10 games up and Lasker refused more than 8 games up.>

I don't care for that terminology. "10 games up"? I can imagine a lot of people scratching their heads in bewilderment. How about "best of 10"?

<Shortly afterwards, on 12 Nov 1909, both masters signed an agreement for a title match in autumn 1910, in case of Lasker not losing his title to Carl Schlechter .>

"in case of" is definitely wrong. I'd like "predicated on Lasker......"

<The tournament director Alfred Ehrhardt Post let Janowski draw by lot the first move >

This is really unclear.

<. Janowski played for an attack in game 2,<14> which was adjourned and ended drawn after resumption on the next day,<15> with playing time set from 4 pm to 8 pm.>

The playing time clause seems misplaced here.

Apr-30-14  Karpova: On

"Nardus donated a prize of 5,000 Francs for the winner,10 declared to be the first to score 8 victories, with draws not counting."

The footnote is wrong, it's not "10" but <12>.

---

<OCF>

<I don't care for that terminology. "10 games up"? I can imagine a lot of people scratching their heads in bewilderment. How about "best of 10"?>

The source says <Mr. Lasker refused to agree to more than eight games up; M. Janowski insisted on ten.>. Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) ended after Lasker had scored his tenth win, with the source stating <The match is to be one of ten games up> - http://www.chessarch.com/archive/00... (In another source the condition is given as <winner of the first ten games> - http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... ). So <best of 10> may create the wrong impression that 6 wins were enough, therefore I would perhaps suggest to say <the first to win eight games> like in Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 (also a <ten games up> match).

The new sentence may look like "..., but the negotiations broke down when Janowski insisted on 10 wins necessary for a match victory, while Lasker refused more than 8 wins.<5>"

---

<"in case of" is definitely wrong. I'd like "predicated on Lasker......">

This change looks fine.

---

<This is really unclear.>

Before the match began, Janowski drew the lot on who would have White in the first game. The tournament director, Post, let him do that.

---

<The playing time clause seems misplaced here.>

It's the first time it was mentioned by Lasker in his column. So bringing it up somewhere else appears risky, while I think that it is worth including the extra information, even if it may look misplaced.

Apr-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: <He had prepared for the match for several weeks in Ostende.<10>>

Ostend or Oostende, probably Ostend; Ostende is the correct spelling in German and French, but not English.

<Janowski reached a favorable position and refused a 3-fold repetition in the two times adjourned game 8, before finally losing.>

That's a pretty awkward sentence. Not sure if it needs blowing up or just a minor fix, but when in doubt... ;-)

"In game 8, Janowski reached a favorable position and refused to take a draw by threefold repetition, only to end up losing."

(Note, though, that the same position was in fact repeated three times - after 49...Kb7, 51...Kb7 and 61...Kb7 - so either a draw could actually have been claimed, at least by Lasker, or they used a different repetition rule. This is briefly looked into at http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... but there's no clear conclusion.)

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