Who knew?

Yep the more I think about it the more I like the Soltis analysis as well. I believe we should edit it in as a worthy replacement quote.

Kind of wish now I hadn't spammed a request for the <Peters> reference all over the site...

Ah but you know what, the more our avatar gets around the site the better. Some curious onlooker might click on it and be able to supply us with some good information.

Really though someone should dash off a note to the USCF telling them they might actually sell copies of their journal if they actually sold them eh?

<because these are grouped as a single event the venue information probably has to be the same for all games>

That seems to be the case for Historical Tournament Pages. When a collection is nominated, there is a prompt to fill in Event name and Site. This information becomes a template which is overwritten on the PGN for individual games.

In the vast majority of tournaments this makes no difference, but it leads to unhappy results for events like AVRO (1938). All games have "The Netherlands" for the site rathan individual cities.

I'm not totally sure these have to be standardized for the event to be properly collected. For example, the PGN for game six of Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) (Steinitz vs Lasker, 1894) has different Event and Site tags than the rest of the games in the match.

<1 Newspaper excerpt taken from Nick Pope's research at http://www.chessarch.com/index.php]> still appears,

From http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18... about 1/3 view down you find <GUNSBERG WINS AGAIN.
NOW LEADING IN HIS MATCH WITH MR. STEINITZ
Brilliant Contest, in Which the English Player Announced a Mate in Five Moves - The Score Now Is: Gunsberg, Two; Steinitz, One - The Next Game Saturday.>
and <The World, New York, 1890.12.19> appears at the end,

I was unable to reconstruct a link with the instructions from <Phony Benoni>

Without the initial "h", both
ttp://www.chessarch.com/excavations/item.php?a=1-
-&source=The_World_New_York&date=1890.12.19
and
ttp://www.chessarch.com/excavations/item.php?a=1-
-&source=The_World&date=1890.12.19

Thanks to you we can confirm another existing source. I added your confirmation to the Template:

Thanks for answering the Bat Signal so quickly.

Fascinating. The link in your post goes to the right page.

But when I copy and paste that link in the Template, it doesn't go to the right page anymore. Instead it goes to the <archaeology> home page.

Fascinating.

How is this possible. Maybe only <Phony Benoni> knows the secret.

I also found those reconstruction directions difficult to understand.

Well there's time for us to learn this.

That's not quite right is it.

Nick Pope did the work to find the articles and then posted them in <archaeology> (bless him).

But for citing the quoted text, we just use the title and the actual newspaper reference right?

Like this:

Scholarly article on <Tarrasch> (in English): http://www.ballo.de/tarrasch_englis...

http://graeme.50webs.com/chesschamp...

<Because of Tarrasch's earlier snub, the two were not on speaking terms for years, which delayed any chance Tarrasch might have of playing for the title. Lasker was angry at Tarrasch over the snub, Tarrasch (a medical doctor who could afford to play chess for free if he wished), was angry about Lasker's large financial demands for every event he played in. By the time this match was finally arranged, Tarrasch was 46, and their feud had barely cooled. An attempted reconciliation before the match came to nothing, when Tarrasch refused to shake hands, made a stiff little bow, and said "To you, Herr Lasker, I have only three words to say: "Check and mate".>

UTTERLY UNSOURCED is this from <Cree>.

Aha ok here is an account of the "snub" related by <Leopold Hoffer>, who was not only present, but, according to him, actually a party to this incident.

http://www.chess.com/groups/forumvi...

It's quoted from <Hoffer's> book of the <Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 match>:

Lasker-Tarrasch 1908:

<AGREEMENT.
Between Prof. Dr. Gebhardt and Herr J. Schenzel (on behalf of the German Chess Association) and Dr. I/asker, of New York, and Dr. Tarrasch, of Nuremberg. 1. Dr. Lasker and Dr. Tarrasch agree to play a match for the championship of the world.
2. The winner of first eight games (draws not counting) to be the victor. 3. The winner to receive the prize of 4,000 mark from the German Chess Association, and the loser 2,500 mark.
4. Dr. Lasker to receive a fixed honorarium of 7,500 mark. Dr. Tarrasch relinquishes any honorarium in order to facilitate the bringing about of the match.
5. The match to begin on Monday, August 17th, at 2-45 p.m., at Düsseldorf, and to be continued at Munich on August 31st. 6. Six games per week to be played, six hours daily (afternoon and evening). 7. Each player has the right to take an off day five times during the match. 8. No second game to be commenced on any day.
9. Time limit, fifteen moves per hour.

Ok again from <Hoffer's> Match book:

<"Now we arrive at the present challenge, which originated in a speech by Dr. Tarrasch at the banquet given after his decisive victory over Marshall, 1905. Dr. Tarrasch said : "After my newest and greatest achievement, I have no reason to consider that anybody stands above me in the chess world. It was certainly more difficult to beat the youthful Marshall than old Steinitz. ">

That's the first sourced reference I've seen so far to Tarrasch mentioning Steinitz's age in relation to losing his title to Lasker.

Maybe this quote was "spiced up" to make a clever play on words, becoming <In my opinion the match with Steinitz does not have the great importance that they themselves attribute to it. For Steinitz has grown old, and the old Steinitz is no longer the Steinitz of old.>

I kind of doubt it though. I think maybe I just haven't found the source of this quote yet, if it exists. If Tarrasch did say or write this.

I'm still looking.

It's not mentioned in Hannak's biography of <Lasker>, nor is it in the Linder biography of <Lasker>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanue...

<At the opening ceremony, Tarrasch refused to talk to Lasker, only saying: "Mr. Lasker, I have only three words to say to you: check and mate!"[47][48]>

Note [47] leads to the following unsourced text from this web page- http://www.atlantic-times.com/archi...

<"A century ago, the chess world truly revolved around Germany. In August and September 1908, two Germans fought for the chess crown. Their highly publicized duel was divided between Düsseldorf and Munich. Emanuel Lasker and Siegbert Tarrasch were bound by a rivalry that the latter was able to sum up in one sentence. "Mr. Lasker, I have only three words to say to you: check and mate!">".

Note [48] is this- <Giffard, Nicolas (1993). Le Guide des Échecs (in French). Éditions Robert Laffont. p.397 .>

"I have only three words for you, check and mate" gives 2 pages of results, not one of them gives the actual source for this "quote."

http://www.chessarch.com/excavation...

The only papers listed for that date are "New York Daily Tribune" and "New York Sun".

http://www.chessarch.com/excavation...

Likely it's the second most well-known quote from <Tarrasch>.

If it's so well known, why isn't it sourced? A contemporary newspaper account would do nicely.

<The World, New York, 1890.12.19>

See my question on this over at <whitesharks'> house- I was thinking the same thing as you, and asked him almost the exact same question about play on words in German.

I also asked him if Tarrasch could speak or write in English at all.

If it does turn out to be poetic license, I'd prefer to use another quote. The quote from <Hoffer's> match book expresses the same thought, and it seems to be a more reliable source.

This is how these inaccuracies get out of hand, not letting the facts get in the way of a good story, or a nice turn of phrase.

Actually I'm a lot more concerned about this "Check and Mate" issue.

That's a very famous quote, much better known than the "Steinitz of old" quote.

Both cannot be accurate at the same time.

Maybe we'll just go back to the way <Daniel> had it in the first place:

"Nick Pope's article on the match from
http://www.chessarch.com/archive/18..."

Thanks to you and <crawfb5> we were able to put the live link to the actual article onto the edit template.