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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 36 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Outstanding!

That makes perfect sense to me.

I will gladly take your advice -

<I would guess so, you could write that and add those two sources (pp. 133-134 of the May 1936 'Neue Wiener Schachzeitung' for draw odds and p. 284 of the September 1935 'Neue Wiener Schachzeitung' for same conditions).>

"Alekhine got draw odds against against Bogoljubov in both matches and in his match against Euwe 1935"

Sep-24-13  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907

Where are the footnotes?

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: <Karpova> I asked the same question earlier... here's the answer: WCC Editing Project chessforum
Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>, <Switch>

Yes, we'll have to remain patient until we sort out the footnotes and other things on Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907.

It will be the first draft we submit for actual promotion, and will therefore serve as the template for all of our other submissions.

Once it goes up, we have to copy that exact format, so it will take a bit of time still.

In the mean time, please do follow the footnote guidelines I posted at the top of my Profile.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <The match began Sept.6 under these conditions: Alekhine would get $6,000 dollars win or lose, with any surplus going to Bogoljubov. A winner would be declared if he scored 15 1/2 points with 6 wins in a maximum of 30 games to be played in various cities: Wiesbaden, Heidelberg, Berlin, The Hague, and Amsterdam.7 Emanuel Lasker would serve as arbiter.8 Bogoljubov's record leading up to the match indicated he was a legitimate challenger, at least based on results. >

The last sentence must begin a new paragraph.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907

<Marshall was then finally able to successfully negotiate terms with Lasker nearly identical to those of the Maróczy match.>

I think “then” is redundant. I hate to add words, but maybe “….Lasker that were nearly” strikes me as worth it.

<The time control was 15 moves per hour and no more than three games were played per week>

I think “were played” can be dele with no loss of meaning.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

Thank goodness, and welcome!

Game Collection: WCC:Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1929

<<The match began Sept.6 under these conditions: Alekhine would get $6,000 dollars win or lose, with any surplus going to Bogoljubov. A winner would be declared if he scored 15 1/2 points with 6 wins in a maximum of 30 games to be played in various cities: Wiesbaden, Heidelberg, Berlin, The Hague, and Amsterdam.7 Emanuel Lasker would serve as arbiter.8 Bogoljubov's record leading up to the match indicated he was a legitimate challenger, at least based on results. > The last sentence must begin a new paragraph.>

Quite right, reorganized. Notes not changed yet, pending further revisions.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907

<<Marshall was then finally able to successfully negotiate terms with Lasker nearly identical to those of the Maróczy match.>

I think “then” is redundant. I hate to add words, but maybe “….Lasker that were nearly” strikes me as worth it.

<The time control was 15 moves per hour and no more than three games were played per week>

I think “were played” can be dele with no loss of meaning.>

Logged, thank you.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907

< Marshall was usually more successful in tournaments than match play, while Lasker was a strong match player. “In the worst situations he knows no panic, and his defense is strong at all times, with a drop of poison always contained in his defensive moves.”9 Marshall failed to win a single game.>

I don't like this formulation of "The Sentence". I see no reason for the unattributed quote in the middle of it. Footnote or not, I think the author of that must be cited in the text. Regardless, I don't think the current forumation is very good.

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908

<In 1906, world champion Emanuel Lasker singled out Tarrasch and 9th DSB Kongress, Leipzig (1894) as worthy contenders for the world championship, >

Lasker singled out a tournament as a contender?

<and said that the former had become a giant in chess thanks to his amour propre>

If amour prope is quoting Lasker, it needs to be in quotation marks and cited.

<Finally, the long-anticipated match was brought about after long negotiations in 1908.>

I don't like the repetition of "long". Suggestions: "much-anticipated" or "lengthy negotiations".

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Schlechter 1910

<detected in his personality a lack of anything demoniacal which could induce him to seize someone else's possessions. (4)>

If any of that is a quote, it needs to be in quotation marks. If it isn't, it's pretty outdated rhetoric.

<wherein the match was to last 30 games.......On January 7, 1910, the 10-game world championship match began >

When did the agreement change from 30 to 10 games?

Sep-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921

<Later, he was in the USA to finish his education>

"moved to" or "spent time in" or something else would be better than "was in". That sounds like an accidental visit or something.

Too tired to continue tonight.

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> Thanks for a timely reappearance!

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Schlechter 1910

<<detected in his personality a lack of anything demoniacal which could induce him to seize someone else's possessions. (4)>

If any of that is a quote, it needs to be in quotation marks. If it isn't, it's pretty outdated rhetoric.>

I think <Karpova> is paraphrasing, which doesn't need quotations, and also translating from German. I think if that's the way <Lasker> actually wrote, we should have as close to literal translation as possible.

Logged.

#################

<When did the agreement change from 30 to 10 games?>

That is currently unsolved by anyone.

#################

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <OhioEditingFan> cont.

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921

<<Later, he was in the USA to finish his education>

"moved to" or "spent time in" or something else would be better than "was in". That sounds like an accidental visit or something.>

I agree. I like "moved to" best. Logged.

####################

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908

<<In 1906, world champion Emanuel Lasker singled out Tarrasch and 9th DSB Kongress, Leipzig (1894) as worthy contenders for the world championship, >

Lasker singled out a tournament as a contender?>

Yes this has to be fixed. Logged.

#################

<<and said that the former had become a giant in chess thanks to his amour propre>

If amour prope is quoting Lasker, it needs to be in quotation marks and cited.>

<Karpova> and others have done a lot of work on that already- I think the edit log should be in the mirror, below the draft?

At any rate that's just waiting on <Karpova's> final selection.

#################

<<Finally, the long-anticipated match was brought about after long negotiations in 1908.>

I don't like the repetition of "long". Suggestions: "much-anticipated" or "lengthy negotiations".>

Agree, I like "lengthy" best. Logged.

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> cont.

Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907

<< Marshall was usually more successful in tournaments than match play, while Lasker was a strong match player. “In the worst situations he knows no panic, and his defense is strong at all times, with a drop of poison always contained in his defensive moves.”9 Marshall failed to win a single game.>

I don't like this formulation of "The Sentence". I see no reason for the unattributed quote in the middle of it. Footnote or not, I think the author of that must be cited in the text. Regardless, I don't think the current forumation is very good.>

Logged.

Sep-25-13  Karpova: <OCF> Thanks for the many useful suggestions!

On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908

<In 1906, world champion Emanuel Lasker singled out Tarrasch and 9th DSB Kongress, Leipzig (1894) as worthy contenders for the world championship,>

Just the wrong hyperlink was inserted. This should be the hyperlink to Geza Maroczy's player page.

<and said that the former had become a giant in chess thanks to his amour propre>

I would suggest to replace it with <Dr. Tarrasch's strength or weakness, if you will, is his pronounced self-love. Without it, he would have become only a a very mediocre chessplayer. But with his particular talent, he grew into a giant.3>

On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Schlechter 1910

<detected in his personality a lack of anything demoniacal which could induce him to seize someone else's possessions. (4)>

<Jess> is correct. The original passage reads <Der Österreicher Schlechter hat zwar die Befähigung für einen solchen Kampf, aber er hat eben nur die Befähigung - weiter nichts. Er ist ein Mann, der ein ruhiges Leben liebt und so wenig Dämonisches an sich hat, daß er es nicht über sich bringen könnte, etwas an sich zu reißen, was ein anderer besitzt.> (The austrian Schlechter indeed possesses the aptitude for such a fight, but he just has the aptitude - nothing else. He is a man who loves a quiet life and has so little demoniacal by himself, that he could never bring himself to seize something that another one possesses) - this is hard for me to translate word by word, let's wait for <Lasker's Chess Magazine> to see if the original version complies with the paraphrasing.

<When did the agreement change from 30 to 10 games?>

As <Jess> said, no one has ever found the published conditions so possibly they were never published. So we don't know. If the following passage quoting Goldman still leaves the reader puzzled, maybe we should insert an extra footnote?

I will then have a look at the 1935 coverage.

Sep-25-13  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Euwe 1935

Kmoch's diary:

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, p. 289

Amsterdam, October 2
Opening ceremony headed by Slotemaker de Bruine (dutch <Unterrichtsminister>, something like minister of education), mayor of Amsterdam, members of the committe which prepared the match (head was Meester Levenbach), Meester Rueb the president of FIDE who gave her blessing for the event (<die der Veranstaltung ihren Segen gab>), the players, media, etc. Rueb draws the lot and Alekhine gets White in game 1 and after the drawing of lot, the ceremony ends. (a footnote explains that Meester means lawyer).

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, pp. 289-290
Amsterdam, October 3
Same location as yesterday, a small room is connected to the large hall and in this small room, the players are seated, two glassdoors were removed so that they are visible. In order to not disturb the players, there is a deaf zone (<taube Zone>) in between playing room and spectator's room. There are <Wandbretter> (wand = wall, brett = board) to show the moves to the audience. Playing time between 17:30 and 22:30 and the first game begins shortly after 17:30 (small delay). Ring of the bell, dead silence, 500 spectators.

1st match game, October 3, Hotel Carlton, Amsterdam. After conclusion: White 1 h 35 min, Black 2 h 25 min. According to the game description, Euwe used up a lot of time following move 11 (problem is not which moves, but sequence of moves).

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, pp. 291-292
Amsterdam, October 6
Two days per game, so October 4 was free. The committe did not want to pass over the opportunity to start game 2 on a Sunday, so October 5 was also a free day. Game 2 now in Militiezaal, Amsterdam, October 6.

Adjourned after 40...Qe7, resumed October 7 in Militiezaal, 19-23 pm. Time: White 2 h 43 min, Black 1 h 58 min. After move 26, Alekhine erroneously thought Euwe had only 1 min left and offered a draw (in game one, the clock was set on 12, in game 2 on 11:30 so it can be checked if the flag fell). Euwe explained it and they played on.

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, p. 293
Amsterdam, October 8
Play back again in Hotel Carlton. The game began on time. Game 3 played on October 8 (adjourned after 40...Qxd4) - White 1 h 45 min, Black 2 h 28 min - and resumed on October 9 with 41.Qxd4 and Black resigned.

Next stop: Page 294, Den Haag, October 10

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

Thanks so much for research on <Alekhine-Euwe 1935>!

I'm looking for anything to help corroborate the insanely detailed account of the match in <Munninghoff>. You already found one corroboration earlier in this thread. The information from <Kmoch> you give above is exciting and detailed. I think you were right to defend him as a strong chess journalist.

On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 I did all your suggestions, and also I put the word "lengthy" in to replace "long."

Sounds better without "long" being repeated, as <Ohio> says.

<Finally, the long-anticipated match was brought about after <<<lengthy>>> negotiations in 1908.>

Sep-25-13  Karpova: <Jess>

Later more on the 1935 match, just shortly on Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 : with quotation marks "Dr. Tarrasch's strength or weakness, if you will, is his pronounced self-love. Without it, he would have become only a very mediocre chessplayer. But with his particular talent, he grew into a giant."

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> got it, changing it now.
Sep-25-13  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Euwe 1935

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, p. 294
The Hague, October 10
Of the 30 match games, Amsterdam took 19, 's Gravenhave 4, Delft, Rotterdam, Gonda, Utrecht, Groningen, Ermelo and Eindhoven 1 game each. Kmoch calls this arrangement very strange (<höchst eigenartig>), assuming financial reasons. (btw, 's Gravenhave = The Hague) Game 4, October 10, Hotel "De Witte Brug", The Hague

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, p. 295
The Hague, October 11
Game 4 was adjourned after Euwe had sealed his 41st move and he soon found out that his game was lost. He wanted to resign without resumption but this would have troubled <die Regie> (probably the people organizing the match), so he made 4 additional moves.

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October 1935, p. 296
Delft, October 12
Game 5 played in the <Studentengesellschaft> Phönix (possibly a fraternity). There was a short welcoming, the <Unterrichtsminister> (probably again Slotemaker de Bruine), an <Altminister> (old minister, possibly retired?)and a <Kommissar der Königin> (königin = queen) were also present. But Alekhine's wife was absent because of an illness (<leichte Erkrankung>) and his cat <Chess> - his <Glückskater> (cat bringing him luck, like a lucky charm) was also absent (Siamese, not white). Game 5, October 12, "Studenten Societeit Phönix", Delft. White 1 h 55 min, Black 2 h 17 min.

Page 297: Game 5 was followed by 2 rest days, game 6 ended drawn.

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October-November 1935, pp. 305-306 Hans Kmoch, Rotterdam, October 15, Hotel Coomans. No welcoming this time. Game 6, October 15, Hotel Bristol, Rotterdam. Adjourned after move 40, White 2 h 52 min, Black 2 h 18 min. Rotterdam, October 16
This time, they resumed the game already at 2 pm (6 hours playing time is set for <Hängetage> with 2 hours rest between play hours 4 and 5 so they have to start earlier. I guess <Hängetage> means the days reserved for resumption of adjourned games (also called in German <Hängepartie>, think also of the english expression hung jury).

Page 307: Resumption on October 16, Hotel Bristol, Rotterdam. Complete time consumption: White 4 h 15 min, Black 4 h 30 min. Dr. Lasker came from Moscow as correspondet for Russian press and <Chess> got a lovely bride (cost 20 Gulden, but Kmoch says that <Chess> didn't have to pay them himself).

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October-November 1935, pp. 307-308 Utrecht, October 17
Meeting in the great concert hall (<Konzertsaal>) and official welcoming. The mayor of Utrecht executed the first move for Alekhine. Game 7, October 17, Groote Concertzaal, Utrecht. Adjourned after move 40, White 2 h 15 min, Black 2 h 29 min. Page 309: Euwe wanted half an hour to look at the game after adjournment and decide if he resigns at once. He was too excited and could not come to a conclusion - adjournment followed. The reporter's could not enter the <Telegraphenamt> (to send their telegrams) as the door was locked. The committe provided them with cars to travel to Amsterdam, The Hague or Rotterdam. Amsterdam, October 18: Euwe saw that the adjourned position was lost and resigned by telephone (Alekhine's sealed move was 41.Rb4).

Sep-25-13  Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Euwe 1935

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October-November 1935, pp. 309-310 Amsterdam, October 20
Game 8, again in Militiezaal (planned was October 19, changed <den Zuschauen zuliebe> for the spectators but the audience was a bit smaller nonetheless. Euwe's fans were pessimistic, some believed that Euwe would eventually crack completely. Game started at 18:30.
Game 8, October 20, Militiezaal, Amsterdam. Adjourned after move 40, White 2 h 22 min, Black 2 h 5 min. Page 311: Amsterdam, October 21, resumption of the adjourned game. Game began at 16 o'clock (on 1st day 40 moves in 2 h 30 min, then 32 moves in 2 h and 16 moves per h for the rest). Euwe won and the Netherlands gain new courage, except for Euwe who hadn't lost his old one. Page 312: The Dutch do not necessarily expect Euwe to win, they hope for exciting games and Euwe to put up strong resistance. They just don't want him to fail completely. Resumption October 21, Militiezaal, Amsterdam. White 4 h 13 min, Black 4 h 5 min.

Neue Wiener Schachzeitung, October-November 1935, pp. 312-313 Amsterdam, October 13
The playing venue was this time the school (<Mädchen-Mittelschule>, middle school for girls) where Euwe works as a teacher. The audience was mostly young peple, especially female youth. Game 9, October 22, Amsterdam. The atmosphere had become hostile to 3...Bb4 in the French.

Next stop: Page 337, Gouda, October 24

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <I think <Karpova> is paraphrasing, which doesn't need quotations, and also translating from German. I think if that's the way <Lasker> actually wrote, we should have as close to literal translation as possible. >

I know it's late in the game to raise this issue, but I am not persuaded a footnote is sufficient to identify a statement like that as a quotation/translation/paraphrase of someone else. I know it can get really awkward to explain that something <is> a quotation/translation/paraphrase but I think the awkwardness is worth the trouble of the clarification.

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Capablanca 1921

<On January 23, 1920 Lasker and Capablanca agreed to a title match for 1921.>

I don't care for "for" there. "to be held in" or "scheduled in" or "scheduled for" would be better IMO.

<The match was held in Havana in from March 15 to April 27, 1921.>

Dele the second "in".

Sep-25-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927

<Instead he sent a congratulatory resignation note.>

I'd like a comma after "instead".

<Neither did the ex-champion show up for the closing ceremony on 8 December. >

I am not crazy about that formulation, but if we stick with it, "nor" seems to be indicated. There's an implied "neither" in the negative reference of the previous sentence, that is neither (first negative)......nor (second negative). Another episode of I know this is late in the game to be asking (IKTILITGTBA in the future), but is there going to be a consistent usage of the British usage of Day/Month?

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