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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 48 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Nov-25-13
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Some nice additions to this draft:
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910 Good work. I posted your re-worked draft at the top of the mirror. I made a few grammar edits as well, so please take a close look. You'll notice that I didn't put the hyperlinks in the re-worked draft- I'm not going to do that any more, because then it's easier for you to do re-worked drafts without missing earlier corrections. Now, it should be easy for you simply to copy and paste the entire old draft from the mirror and make your corrections/additions on to your new reworked draft. That would also have made it easier for you to make the changes you wanted to the Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 draft. It's a million times better if you make those changes directly yourself rather than give me instructions on how to do it. Then there can be no mistake. In future work, I won't put the hyperlinks into the mirror drafts until just before I change it to html to send to Daniel for promotion. |
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Nov-25-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Switch>
<<Karpova: It's possible that Lasker's contract with <Carl Schlechter> and his departure for America did not allow for negotiations for a world championship match with Janowski in 1909.>This, too, could use a citation. It sounds a bit speculative.> It is a speculation. You can tell by the word "possibly." We should allow such informed speculation in the absence of further data, although obviously it would be best to find more information on the topic. Sometimes we won't be able to find it though. In those cases, I think the speculation <Karpova> made here adds to the logic of the story. Since the reader knows it's a speculation ("possibly") the reader can make up her own mind about how plausible the speculation is. The speculation would also be better if some contemporaneous person made the same speculation- then that opinion could be cited, as you suggest. |
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Nov-25-13
| | WCC Editing Project: Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 I'm going to take out the birth-death dates from this draft, as I find them inconsistent and unnecessary, although I do understand the logic of <Karpova's> explanation of why they were included. It would be better to make the explanation in a way that doesn't require parenthetical birth-death dates. |
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Nov-25-13
| | WCC Editing Project: Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 I put in both of <Ohio's> suggestions: <<During the mid-1880s, he established himself among the strongest chessplayers in the world.>I am appealing more to the sound of the sentence than the grammar. I am not sure which (or both) are formally correct, but I strongly prefer "as one of" to "among". <The Manhattan Chess Club served as intermediaries> ...served as the intermediary...> |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 <Switch> <OCF> I would suggest the following:
<Steinitz considered his world championship tenure to have started with his win over Adolf Anderssen.2 But none of these matches had been officially for the title of world champion, and Paul Morphy (though inactive in serious play) was still alive.> Source 2 is http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... which is Edward Winter's article on the early uses of the term "World Champion". As can be seen, it wasn't located in the final match conditions prior to the 1886 match. So this may be used as a source for the second claim also. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 <Jess: I found your instructions quite confusing, but I think I changed it to how you want.> Something had been changed and then it ceased to fit. The text:
<The conditions were agreed upon on December 6, 1890. The winner would be first to 10 games (draws not counting). A draw would be declared in the case of 9 wins each, or most wins after 20 games14 for stakes of $1,500 with 2/3 for the winner.15> This looks good in principle, but the 3rd sentence implies that a draw would have been declared in case of most wins after 20 games also. Perhaps: <The conditions were agreed upon on December 6, 1890. The winner would be first to 10 games (draws not counting), or most wins after 20 games.14 A draw would be declared in the case of 9 wins each.14 The stakes were $1,500 with 2/3 for the winner.15> |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 Thanks for the clarification- I put your new sentence in now. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Boomie: <WCC>
Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 "By game 17, with the champion leading 11-6, the match was all but over, and Alekhine coasted home to an easy victory." "Alekhine led 6 wins to 1 after 17 games and easily won the match after 26 games 8-3 (15 draws)." |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Boomie: <WCC>
Game Collection: WCC:Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1929 "It soon became apparent that the challenger's obligation to raise a $10,000 purse would actually be the main obstacle to a rematch." "The challenger's obligation to raise a $10,000 purse would be the main obstacle to a rematch." "Bogoljubov's record leading up to the match indicated he was a legitimate challenger, at least based on results." "Bogoljubov's record leading up to the match indicated he was a legitimate challenger." |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Boomie: <WCC>
Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927 "As early as his 3d place at..."
"As early as his 3rd place at..."
"He indeed placed 1st at Mannheim (1914), Budapest (1921), and The Hague (1921), after which he issued his first challenge to Capablanca, who had wrested the title from Emanuel Lasker earlier in the year" "He placed 1st at Mannheim (1914), Budapest (1921), and The Hague (1921). He then challenged Capablanca who had won the title earlier in 1921" "After London (1922), where Alekhine placed 2d to the champion..." "After London (1922), where Alekhine placed 2nd to the champion..." "After finishing 3d to Lasker and Capablanca..."
"After finishing 3rd to Lasker and Capablanca..."
I'm finding a lot of these 2d and 3d typos. Is that a Pommy convention? What's 3d to the bloody Bank of England? Anywho should I ignore them or continue pointing them out? |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Tim>
Outstanding work, thank you!
I put in all your changes except for the "Department of Weights and Measures." Yes, you can ignore the "2d" and "3d" things.
That's what we're going to go with.
You may also be horrified to learn that we're going to go with "Dec 4"
Instead of
"Dec. 4th"
It's all part of the new cleaning lady style.
Actually it was <Big's> idea and I came around to his preference after I saw that <Lynyrd Skinner> and Robocop directer <Paul Verhoeven> used this style in their book on Johnny Alekhine. |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Tim>
Actually could you help me fix this better here?
Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 This is what I put in but it still doesn't look right to me: <Alekhine led 6 wins to 1 after 17 games and easily won the match after 26 games, +8 -3 =15.> I don't want to use parentheses but I need help on this still. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: E. g. Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 but others are also affected: I think that the links to online sources in footnotes should be maintained in the draft, else the source is basically lost. http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... or http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... tells us almost nothing. And I guess that it is less work to include them once the draft is put into the mirror, than to find out later what page was linked to. |
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Nov-26-13
 | | OhioChessFan: <PLEASE> don't go with 2d and 3d. I would type more, but I must put some gauze on my eyes to stop the bleeding. |
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Nov-26-13
| | OhioChessFan: <I would suggest the following: <Steinitz considered his world championship tenure to have started with his win over Adolf Anderssen.2 But none of these matches had been officially for the title of world champion, and Paul Morphy (though inactive in serious play) was still alive.>> This is wrong both grammatically and stylistically. "had been officially" just doesn't work. It demands "conducted", "staged", "contested", "held", or something else. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: Perhaps: <Steinitz considered his world championship tenure to have started with his win over Adolf Anderssen.2 But none of these matches had been officially declared to be for the title of world champion, and Paul Morphy (though inactive in serious play) was still alive.> ? |
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Nov-26-13
| | OhioChessFan:
No. |
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Nov-26-13
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <WCC Editing Project: It is a speculation. You can tell by the word "possibly." We should allow such informed speculation in the absence of further data, although obviously it would be best to find more information on the topic. Sometimes we won't be able to find it though. In those cases, I think the speculation <Karpova> made here adds to the logic of the story. Since the reader knows it's a speculation ("possibly") the reader can make up her own mind about how plausible the speculation is.> So what you're saying is that <all facts in the intros must be sourced to reliable primary material> doesn't apply here because we're dealing with speculation and not a fact? |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: <SwitchingQuylthulg: So what you're saying is that <all facts in the intros must be sourced to reliable primary material> doesn't apply here because we're dealing with speculation and not a fact?> Yes, that's correct. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Tal-Botvinnik Rematch 1961 C.N. 8409
Link: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... Botvinnik: <My friend, the master Goldberg, with whom I have worked these past years, refused to be my second this time. He is older than I, and to second is far more tiring than to play. It is exhausting, and I understand his point of view.> |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: Sorry <Ohio>, but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ez5...
<Ordinal numbers may be written in English with numerals and letter suffixes: 1st, 2nd <<<or>>> 2d, 3rd <<<or>>> 3d, 4th,...> <3d Marines
1st Battalion, 3d Marines
2d Battalion, 3d Marines
3d Battalion, 3d Marines>
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/marine/...
If it's good enough for the US Marines, it's good enough for me. |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Outstanding! Thanks and added to the mirror.
Game Collection: WCC: Tal-Botvinnik Rematch 1961 |
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Nov-26-13
| | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
Quite right, and fixed.
Game Collection: WCC : Steinitz-Zukertort 1886 What are the other ones, and I hope your other posted drafts (with hyperlinks intact) are still up in our forum pages? This is my fault, terribly sorry. |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Karpova: Game Collection: WCC: Steinitz-Gunsberg 1890 Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Janowski 1910 - again, the sources section changed as I added two new ones, see WCC Editing Project chessforum |
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| Nov-26-13 | | Boomie: <WCC>
Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 "Alekhine led 6 wins to 1 after 17 games and easily won the match after 26 games, +8 -3 =15" Since draws didn't count, how about:
"Alekhine led 6 wins to 1 after 17 games and easily won the match after 26 games, 8 wins to 3." The reader can do the math if they want to know how many draws there were. |
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