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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 86 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Mar-23-14 | | Boomie: <OhioCommaChameleon> The acid test on commas involves saying the sentence out loud. If there is a pause, add a comma, otherwise don't. (See what I did there? I put a comma after "pause" because there was a pause. Gawd I'm clever) I know that's not the Chicago way but I told you I made it up on acid so what do you expect? |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: I pause after "round", and almost pause after "point". |
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| Mar-23-14 | | Boomie: <OhioChestMan>
This audio visual aid must give us pause.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gK... |
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| Mar-23-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948 <3 Minutes of the FIDE Secretariat of the Congress in Winterthur in July 1946. In Winter, "Interregnum."> Winter writes <Congress>, but you always wrote <congress>. As this is not the name but the origin of the minutes, <congress> would probably be in order. <7 The USSR joined FIDE at The Hague conference of 1947. They arrived late on 2 Aug, the last day of the congress. "El Ajedrez Argentino" (Nov-Dec 1947), pp. 298-300. In http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... > You give the name of Winter's <Interregnum> feature article, but not of this one. I think you should, it's <Winter, "Chess: The History of FIDE", "Section 5: Euwe world champion for one day" http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... > Footnote <18> looks really nice now, correcting Botvinnik's mistake and introducing a new primary source! But something's wrong with the <ch> in <March> in <25 March 1948> (the <ch> is in italics). |
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Mar-23-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <WCC Editing Project: <Speculation> Colleagues, I'm in this for the long haul. I'm not stopping until every single WCC page is rewritten. I think we should extend "promotion examination" time to <three weeks>.> I like <Ohio>'s dynamic closing idea better. People will always find problems at the last minute, regardless of whether two weeks or three weeks have passed, and having many last-minute inspections (as with this draft) will likely work better than having one after a week or even two with no action. Another consideration is that with 50+ drafts this project will take N years to complete, with N being the average time in weeks we spend on each draft. I know you said you're in it for the long haul, and we've all been on this site for years, but I'm not sure how wise it is to commit to N=3 (plus delays). You remember Daniel's reaction to N=1 - imagine if you tell him the project will actually take three or four years to complete! (There is of course a good chance that will happen anyway, but I think we should at least try to avoid it.) |
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Mar-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<Botvinnik was eventually able to secure rooms at the Hotel De Twee Steden for his family and his seconds, Viacheslav Ragozin and Salomon Flohr.> In the draft now.
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No comma after round.
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All <Karpova's> note edits in. #################################
Combining <Ohio> and <Switch> ideas: <One week provided that there is a full week before any given Sunday (Starring Al Pacino), plus E-bay.> The E-Bay period will always fall on a Sunday when I'm not at work. So if I submit this today, the next one would be due not next Sunday but the Sunday after. So it will always be under two weeks. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
Updated:
WCC Editing Project Committee
<JFQ>, <Karpova>, <crawfb5>, <OhioChessFan>, <Boomie>, <SwitchingQuylthulg>, <dakgootje> I know not every Commissar will be available for every promotion inspection, but the more available for each inspection the greater the likelihood we don't cock something up. Participation most crucial near "E-Bay Day." |
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Mar-23-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: Oh Lord...
Edited and reposted:
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<Switch>
I'm just throwing this out there, but is there any chance you might consider writing a few drafts? I'm thinking of the "recent era" after the last <Kasparov-Karpov> championship match, where most of the resource material will probably be found online. No pressure, but it would be super amazing if you even considered this idea. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <By the 10th round Botvinnik led the field by a point and faced Keres.> <No comma after round. > I'll settle for a comma after "point". |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Begging the WorldCommisarCommisioner's pardon, but I have noticed your bearded presence on other pages. I think that is an implicit invitation for people who converse with you on those pages to come here and continue the conversation. And then the cranks on this page call them out and they think we're too picky and you have to side with us and they think you're a crank too and nobody's happy. It would please my cranky self to no end if you limited your kibitzing in your current garb to this page. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <By the 10th round Botvinnik led the field by a point and faced Keres.> After further thought, I think that sentence demands a comma and some additional words. The "and" should connect thoughts. So it should make sense logically for us to say "By the 10th round Botvinnik faced Keres". That does not make sense. Options:
1. <By the 10th round Botvinnik led the field by a point, when he faced Keres.> 2. <Botvinnik led the field by a point when he faced Keres in the 10th round.> 3. <By the 10th round, when he faced Keres, Botvinnik led the field by a point.> I prefer 2 which is a stronger structure while being simpler. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Please> use #2. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Ebay day is that the time limit is extended every time there's a change. |
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Mar-23-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Oh, and <please> use #2. |
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Mar-24-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <It would please my cranky self to no end if you limited your kibitzing in your current garb to this page.> Nope.
The <WCC> will continue to post regularly at the <Bistro>, on <Game Pages>, on <Historical Tournament Pages>, and on <Fellow Biographers'> fora. She won't be found elsewhere though- that much I can agree to. #########################
<Botvinnik led the field by a point when he faced Keres in the 10th round> Yep.
Much better, thank you.
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<Ebay day is that the time limit is extended every time there's a change.> I'm not ashamed to say that I don't understand what you mean. I do recognize that I *should* be ashamed about it though. I would like you to be <E-Bay Day Czar> and handle these issues? Anyways, as time/inclination permits.
This is supposed to be fun. Luckily it is! |
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Mar-24-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Fantasy Football Colleagues> I'm on lunch hour, but when I get home from work I'm going to submit the draft. Here is the next one we will work on:
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 |
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Mar-24-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <WCC Editing Project: <Switch> I'm just throwing this out there, but is there any chance you might consider writing a few drafts? I'm thinking of the "recent era" after the last <Kasparov-Karpov> championship match, where most of the resource material will probably be found online. No pressure, but it would be super amazing if you even considered this idea.> I'll think about it. But I suspect I'm better at editing drafts than writing them in the first place, and you know I don't have the drive and motivation that you do. I could try to tackle Anand-Carlsen 2013, perhaps; my free year of New in Chess magazines covered that match so I'd have at least some offline sources. But I can't promise anything. |
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Mar-24-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <<Ebay day is that the time limit is extended every time there's a change.> I'm not ashamed to say that I don't understand what you mean. I do recognize that I *should* be ashamed about it though. I would like you to be <E-Bay Day Czar> and handle these issues? Anyways, as time/inclination permits. >
You just made a change to the draft, per <Botvinnik led the field by a point when he faced Keres in the 10th round> Therefore, the time limit is extended _____ hours. Once the draft sits ______ hours after the last edit, it's fair game to submit. |
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Mar-24-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Are we 1000% sure Botvinnik led by one point by the 10th round? |
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Mar-24-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Ohio> I just did the math (Game Collection: 1948 WCC standings by round) and according to my calculations he did lead by 1 point after 9 rounds. In doing so I discovered the following errors with the "course of the tournament" as given by Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948: Round 7 - Botvinnik vs Smyslov, 1948 should be Euwe vs Botvinnik, 1948 Round 13 - Euwe vs Smyslov, 1948 should be Smyslov vs Botvinnik, 1948 (and accordingly, the result ought to be 0-1) Round 14 - wrong result given for Euwe-Smyslov (should be 1-0) |
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Mar-24-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>, <Switch> Thanks for the explanation and the corrections.
Understood and fixed! |
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Mar-24-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <but he studied thoroughly by annotating every game Bronstein had played in the last 2 1/2 years.> Since we're 60 years removed, "previous" seems better than "last". < Shortly before the match Bronstein also played a training game against Semyon Abramovich Furman, and another against Paul Keres.> Needs a comma after "match".
<According to FIDE rules the winner should receive $5,000 and the loser $3,000> I'd like a comma after "rules". I'd strongly prefer "would" to "should". Well, I insist. <He describes the final move of game 23, 57.Bg5: "Zugzwang... Bronstein needed forty minutes to convince himself of the inevitability of defeat," and resign.> "and resign" is a bit of an orphan phrase there. If it's not part of Botvinnik's quote, I don't think it belongs. <Years later both Bronstein and Botvinnik appraised the match in a more acrimonious tone. > "appraised" doesn't seem quite right.
<12 Mikhail Botvinnik, "Half a Century of Chess" E. Strauss transl. (Cadogan 1996), pp.163-64> I'd prefer "164". |
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| Mar-25-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 "but it was not until he won the Saltsjöbaden 1948 Interzonal" Saltsjöbaden Interzonal (1948)
"to earn the right to challenge <Botvinnik> for the title." Link to Botvinnik's playing profile already in the first sentence, so <> unnecessary here. "but Andrew Soltis maintains"
Andrew Soltis
"If the champion lost, he had the right to play in a three player match tournament for the title at the end of the following 3 year candidates cycle. In this case, if Botvinnik lost, he would have the right to play for the championship against Bronstein and the winner of the next cycle.<6,9>" This could perhaps be shortened a bit, as it is clear that Botvinnik was the title holder (you may add this in the first sentence by saying that Bronstein had beaten world champion Mikhail Botvinnik in 1944...). So perhaps, "If the champion lost, he had the right to play in a three player match tournament for the title at the end of the following 3 year candidates cycle. In this case, Botvinnik would have the right to play for the championship against Bronstein and the winner of the next cycle.<6,9>" or even leaner. "likely because he considered himself expert in both sides of the Dutch.<2>" Is it really "in" or not maybe "on"?
"Botvinnik suspected Bronstein meant to "force me to fight against my 'own' systems," a ploy he dismissed as "naive."<11>" The sentence reads a bit strange with "Botvinnik suspected Bronstein meant", so maybe (1) "Botvinnik suspected, that Bronstein meant to "force me to fight against my 'own' systems," a ploy he dismissed as "naive."<11>" or (2) "Botvinnik raised the suspicion that Bronstein meant to "force me to fight against my 'own' systems," a ploy he dismissed as "naive."<11>" "By game 22 Bronstein led by a point, and needed only to win once more or draw twice in the last two games in order to unseat the champion." Maybe changing the commata "By game 22, Bronstein led by a point and needed only to win once more, or draw twice in the last two games, in order to unseat the champion." "57.Bg5"
Is there a possibility to use also the {} in the Intros, to make the move look like ♗g5? "Years later both Bronstein and Botvinnik"
Comma: "Years later, both Bronstein and Botvinnik"
"5 Bronstein and Furstenberg, "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" p.300" Fürstenberg (and again footnote 15)
"17 "Revista Internacional de Ajedrez" (March 1993), pp.38-42. In Edward Winter, Chessnote 4753: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/..." Chess Note |
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Mar-25-14
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: Given that we have full control over the appearance of the links, we should take the opportunity to spell Opočenský as Opočenský and Ståhlberg as Ståhlberg. Also, Fürstenberg is still Furstenberg in footnote 3. |
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Mar-26-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <The winner would be first to 12 1/2 points from 24 games,> It needs to be "the first". I'm not in love with "from" 24 games. <Bronstein <kicked off the match>> A bit colloquial for my tastes.
<likely because he considered himself expert in both sides of the Dutch.> "an expert". Maybe "on both sides". Taking it under advisement. <The time control was 40 moves in 2 1/2 hours, 16 moves an hour thereafter, with an adjournment to the following day after 5 hours of play.> I'd prefer "and 16 moves...." or "with 16 moves..."
<Years later, both Bronstein and Botvinnik appraised the match in a more acrimonious tone.> This sentenece should probably be blown up and completely redone. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 86 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |