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Feb-17-06
 | | WannaBe: <RonB52734> Right, correct you are. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | sitzkrieg: I hope I am right, but after Qd3check, Bd6;
Ne4 would be bad because of Bc4! winning. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | RonB52734: <sitzkrieg> good point! |
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| Feb-17-06 | | sitzkrieg: So we still have to choose between the two positions, OR some other idea.:) |
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| Feb-17-06 | | RonB52734: <sitzkrieg> right |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Cogano: Hi again <RonB52734> & I sincerely hope
this finds you well. I've been offline for the past several hours (I needed to
get some sleep after nearly 2 days' worth of sleep deprivation!). So I've missed quite a bit of the action. 1)Is <wannabe>'s post <Qd3+ played> an announcement of White's move. So now we
are in check? Just to confirm. Also, not to bother you or appear arrogant, but my analysis covered this line. Actually White missed Qd4+, which would
cover a1 after the exchange of pawns on the a & b files, thus preventing our rook from going to a1. So far, White is
continuing as I predicted. If you have the time, I would appreciate it if you would consider my analysis in more detail, if you haven't already done so.
I just would feel better if I were to receive well thought out & thorough feedback to what I proposed. Thank you ever most kindly for your anticipated &
continued patience, tolerance, understanding, consideration & assistance. Take very good care & have yourself a great day, & a great weekend
too! Cheers mate! :) |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: I have been looking at this for a while now, and I think 36...Bd6 is our best move. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: One line is:
36...Bd6; 37.Nxb5, Rf8+; 38.Ke2, axb5; 39.Qxb5+, Ke7.Another is:
36...Bd6; 37.Nxb5, axb5; 38.Qxb5+, Kc7; 39.Qxb3, Rf8+; 40.Ke2, Re8+. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Cogano: <Dark Horses> members you seem to have also overlooked the line 1...K c7. 2.axb5 axb5, 3.Nxb5+. But, I've already
discussed this in my original input before we were to post our move! I welcome all feedback. I will re-analyze
& see if I come up with anything.
There's something else you need to remember, so long as our rook remains on the back rank our winning chances are slim. That is ONE reason, but NOT the ONLY reason, why I favour going to a1 with check, after the exchange of pawns on the a & b files. Just thought I'd point these out. Forgive me if you find what I said to be insulting to your intelligence, as that was not my intenion in the least. Thanks much to all for including me on the team, for your anticipated feedback, & for your anticipated understanding & consideration. Take very good care all & have a great day &
a great weekend too. Cheers to all! :) |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Cogano: Hello <sitzkrieg> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. I mean you no disrespect & I'm sure you know far more
(read more about it) & have more experience than I do. But I must question the sensibility of a move like
Nxb5 for White. We are in the endgame. &, to my knowledge, in that situation, every piece & pawn counts. Giving up a piece is a great sacrifice, & good players do so ONLY if they are reasonably sure & confident it will lead to mate or at least paralyze White's or Black's chances or do so long enough to queen a pawn. But, that is what I've found from the games I'm famaliar with. You & everyone else is more than welcome to re-educate & enlighten me on this & other chess related issues. Thank you most kindly for your anticipated understanding & consideration. Take very good care & have a great day & a great weekend too.
Cheers mate! :) |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: <Cogano> <36...Kc7; 37.axb5, axb5; 38.Nxb5+> We drop a piece with this variation, no matter where we put our king. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: <RonB52734> <The more I look at it, the more I like ...Kc7 and then ...Rd8> 36...Kc7; 37.axb5, Rd8; and 38.b6+ is not good for us. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: I cannot find anything better than 36...Bd6. So I vote for 36...Bd6, unless someone can convince me otherwise. |
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Feb-17-06
| | WannaBe: I will have to agree with <Robin01>. <Robin01> has presented the worst case scenario, and I, too will cast my vote on Bd6. |
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| Feb-17-06 | | Robin01: This is a tough position to play. Hopefully, we can get some help from white! |
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| Feb-18-06 | | Robin01: Well, off to bed I go. Long day again tomorrow. I will not be back on until tomorrow evening. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | Cogano: <Robin01> Thank you for taking the time
to point that out. But that was my point. I don't like Kc7 because if the knight captures & checks we lose the bishop because we have to move the King
first. I will help the team as best I can. But, for now, in my opinion, the position is not winnable. The moves I keep choosing have a two-folded person.
For one, they allow us to force White into a draw, if they choose to continue
to exercise the Queen's force, especially check-wise. If White doesn't
exercise that power, then later we have an opportunity to achieve a Queen vs. Bishop & Rook endgame. If we get a scenario like the one I pointed out in my analysis, then having the King near b5 & c5 would be useful. But, if both pawns fall, then it's a different scenario. & I'd have to analyze that further before I comment on it. Whatever the case, I think it's prudent to remember Steinitz' words "The King is a fighting piece." Even in an endgame, I think it's dangerous to keep
one's King confined to the first or last two ranks. There's no reason to make the other player's Queen's job easier! As always, I welcome all feedback. I offered to join the team not only to do
my best to help but also perchance I might learn something & improve & strengthen my understanding -- in this case of endgames & endgame studies. Thank you all for your anticipated & continued patience, tolerance, understanding, consideration & assistance. Take very good care & have a great day & a great weekend too. Cheers to all! :) |
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Feb-18-06
| | WannaBe: <Cogano> We did anticipate in an Q vs R+B ending, (or I did... in one of the lines given/posted). But I, personally will fight on until I 'see' a game that is truly hopelessly lost. The game is not quite over yet... (I'm still breathing...) |
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| Feb-18-06 | | Cogano: <WannaBe> I agree & I will fight too so
long as I continue to breathe. I just meant to break White's pattern & disrupt their game. I meant to play moves that, if White insists on continuing to check, then he'll draw by
perpetual check or repeated check. And if White doesn't go with that line, then we have a fighting chance. So double purpose moves. They force White to draw in one line or force them to play differently which gives us fighting chances. I still welcome all feedback, as I'll also learn from that.
Thanks you & our fellow members. Take very good care all & have a great day &
a great weekend too. Cheers to all! :) |
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| Feb-18-06 | | RonB52734: Ok, I've read the posts and here's what I think. I'm convinced that ...Bd6 is better to escape check. As things now stand, we have good mobility and we control any possible queening square for white's pawn. Also, <Robin>'s point about <36...Kc7; 37.axb5, Rd8; and 38.b6+ is not good for us> is correct. It would continue 38...Kc8 39.Qxa6+ and the rest is ugly.
After ...Bd6, if white plays Nxb5, I agree we have to take the Knight. If white does not, but instead plays axb5, then I think other moves should be considered including pulling back the light squared bishop, perhaps to e6. So, I vote for ...Bd6.
Also, <cogano>, the only sure way to know whether a move has been played by either team is to go to User: me to play and read the recent postings. Generally, <EmperorAtahualpa> posts the moves for the White team, and I post them for the good guys. Ok, <team>, let me have your votes. Our move is due at 3:00 this afternoon, roughly 5 hours from now. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: I vote Bd6.
<cogano>
Nxb5 is no sac, after it Bb3 is attacked too, so they get back the piece + pawn b5. |
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Feb-18-06
| | WannaBe: I think pretty much everyone agrees on the move. :-) Have to leave and run a 9-ball tournament, be back home later. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | Cogano: <RonB52734> I've got to be quick here. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time
to analyze the whole line. However, I analyzed the move 1...Bd6, with the White moves being what I assumed to be the most logical for them. & it doesn't
look good for us. But you decide. You may think that they'll react differently. In any case, here is what I came up with. As for my vote, I choose Kc8, for better or worse. Take care all & have a great day & a great weekend too. Cheers to all! :) My Bd6 line: 1.Qd3+ Bd6, 2.Nxb5 Rf8+, 3.Ke1 Re8+, 4.Kd2 axb5,5.Qxb5+ Ke7,
6.Qb7+ Kf6, 7.Qf3+ Ke7, 8.Qxb3 Bf4+, 9.Kd3 Rd8+, 10.Ke4 g5, 11.g3 Bd6, 12.a5 Bc5, 13.a6 Rd4+, 14.Kf5 Rd7, 15.Qe6+ Kd8, 16.Qxh6 Kc7, 17.Qf6 Bd4 I'll try my best to get back online soon to read your feedback. In any case, you have my vote. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | RonB52734: Well, for good or ill, Bd6 has won the vote. I'm posting it in 10 minutes. In other words, dissenters have 10 minutes to prove it wrong. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: Cogano, I have no board at hand so i cant see it 15 moves deep:P but is it wise to move Re8 check or can we better take immediately at b5?
Anyway-
and i hope this finds you well and does not offend you in any way-Kc8 looks very bad because of Qf3 with double attack. |
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