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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: So i fear the best is Cogano's line, maybe with or without Re8. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | RonB52734: <cogano> We certainly have to go over your themes as we move forward. I'm not sure anything there looks devastating. It is certainly a dynamic position. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | RonB52734: It is done. White to play
click for larger view |
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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: Good work Capt'n. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: In the var's after N takes pawn, we get a position where we have to stop whites a pawn. I was thinking of a general plan on how to stop the pawn and keep ours. I don't know if its possible. I was thinking of a totally passive defense, where we put our bishop on a7 to block the pawn, and our rook on f7 our pawns where they are and our king on g8 and when needed h8. The king can help the a pawn that way, so the queen cant take the bisshop ever, for Rook takes. Our pawns are safely defended and when the white king moves on g6 we play Rf6 and the king has to go back since giving the queen for rook and pawn wont work.
Only problem i can thinkof is that the white queen will move to e6 maybe then we can move the bishop.
Maybe an idea for thought..
But even if this is ok, we still must be able to achieve this position. On first sight it might be possible. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | sitzkrieg: Ow. and the white king will have to be cut of from its pawns by the rook too (so check in our lines is essential) and b5 must be watched(b.
I am going to bed,its late. Tomorrow i will probably see this entire idea is nonsense, so 4give me if it is. |
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Feb-18-06
 | | WannaBe: good night <sitzkrieg>. |
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| Feb-18-06 | | RonB52734: There's no place like home. There's no place like home :-) |
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| Feb-18-06 | | Robin01: All is quiet. Watching the Olympics tonight. Also going to bed. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | RonB52734: They played Nxb5. Our move is due by 8:00 Monday morning. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | RonB52734: Black to play:
click for larger view |
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| Feb-19-06 | | RonB52734: I guess the choices are Rf8+ and axb5 |
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Feb-19-06
| | WannaBe: I'd say axb5, and the focus will become on the white's pawn on b-file. White need another piece for help in winning this game. One of the possibilities is Qh7 and start to pick off pawns on that side of the board. But I'll look at it some more... |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Robin01: I see they have played. I will look at it in a little while. |
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Feb-19-06
| | WannaBe: I still like axb5 that makes it difficult for the queen to win the game by herself. White must push pawn and promote, by taking the knight (and the most likely response, QxB we can have the respite of worrying forks. Possible scenarios...
37...axb5 38. Qxb3 Rf8+ (can't play 38...bxa4 39. Qb7+! and we lose rook)
37...axb5 38. Qxb5+ Kc7 39. Qxb3 Rf8+
In the second line, I believe white will try to queen the pawn on b8 square. But this can also be reached via 37...Rf8+ 38. K(moves somewhere) axb5 39. Qxb5+ Kc7 40 Qxb3 In a sense, both line should end up with a very similiar position. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: <sitzkrieg> & all sorry for writing this so late after the fact. 5 days of sleep deprivation was too much even for
someone who is routinely sleep deprived. I finally got some sleep. (& I wasn't keeping myself awake. Sleep just doesn't come easily for me. It is a luxury) Anyway. <sitzkrieg> No offence taken. I simply offer an idea. Either others agree with
it or they don't. Regardless, their reaction helps, especially if they explain (why my move is bad, or what it
will cause, why their move is good & what it will achieve etc.) One of the main reasons I did not like Bd6 was because it is now pinned to the King. If you check my original analysis (the one I posted right after I was inducted
into the team), you'll find a variation where the pawns are exchanged & we are able to get the rook to a1 with check, & continue that theme with our dark-squared bishop. When I was considering the possible positions that may develop, I found that bishop far more useful & helpful in attacking the White
King than the other one, which is not to say the other one is useless! As for the Qf3 double attack, that's ok. When we move the King, we can always move him to b7, protecting the rook which will protect the bishop in turn. Back to Bd6, this move allowed White to capture on b5 with the knight, attacking the d6-square twice, with the
knight AND Queen. Not good.
One radical way to deal with that threat, especially since it seems certain we're going to lose our bishop on b3 anyway is to play 1...Bc4. With that pin the Queen is compelled to capture, driving it away from d6. We can then continue with something like 2...Rf8+ & 3...axb5. I know, the Queen will just recapture with check. But, we
MUST EQUALIZE THE MATERIAL LOSS. We need to get something back for the bishop. There's another crucial point to make. The Queen on its own CAN'T mate us or cause serious damage, not so
long as we continue to have that rook & bishop. & if White doesn't recapture on
b5, which is suicidal & fool-hardy in my opinion, then so long as we keep it on the b-file & bring the pieces to protect it, White can't stop us from queening it, or they'll have to sacrifice their own Queen to stop us from doing that. To give them credit, I
think they'll probably do the logical thing & capture with the pawn. As for White's a-pawn, I think if we keep the King close to c8, put the rook
on c8, &, when the pawn reaches a7, bring the bishop to c5 with check. The Queen would be powerless to do anything
about it. & when we bring our rook to c8, their King would be in a dangerous position, because they might panic into
putting him at h1 which leads to mate!
If this plan works, then we'll be back to a somewhat equalized position of Queen & 2 pawns vs. bishop + rook & 2 pawns. I'd love to get your feedback on
this, especially with respect to how their Queen can impede this plan. Their
a-pawn is now deadly. & this is the best I can come up with right now to neutralize it. One other scenario that just occurred to me could go something like: 1.Nxb5 Rf8+, 2.Kg1 Rf6, 3.Qxb3 Bc5+, 4.Kh2 axb5, 5.Qxb5+ Kd6 or 4.Kh1 Rf1+, 5.Kh2 Bd6+, 6.g3 Rf2+ 7.Kh1 Bxg3 or 7.Kg1 Bc5. Please tell me what you think. My lack of experience & chess knowledge (haven't read that much theory) is preventing me from being able to help you more effectively. Thank you for your anticipated patience & understanding. Take very good care & have a great day & a great weekend, what's left of it anyway. Cheers mates!
:) |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: Sorry for going over this again. It's just that I can't stress this enough. Powerful as the Queen may be, alone it is powerless
to stop us, since White's pawn majority is on the Kingside where the King is as
well. So neither the King nor either of those two pawns can lend assistance to the Queen. In my scenario, once we get rid of the knight, we have the advantage, regardless what White plays.
It goes like this:
1.Nxb5 Bc4 (the purpose of this move is to force the Queen AWAY FROM the d-file
leaving the knight as the only piece attacking d6!), 2.Qxc4 Rf8+, 3.Kg1 axb5, 4.Qxb5+ Ke7. Play can continue like this. 5.a5 Rc8, 6.a6 Rc1+ , 7.Kf2 Bc5+, 8.Kf2 Rc2+, 9.Kf3 Rc3+. & it's back to e2 or up to g4 or the pointless e4. If 10.Ke2 or Ke4, then 10...Re3+, 11.K-any Kd6, 12.Qb8+ Kc6, followed by Re7 & Ra7. I'm sorry but I can't quite remember what I played in my scenario (in which our rook ended up on a7). I was too engrossed in seeing how it'll play out, I neglected to write down the moves. So, the above line is what I could remember. I really
believe this gives us a lot of potential. Without the knight to assist
the Queen & without the a-pawn to queen, I don't see what good chances White will have left. Please take a look at this idea & tell me what you think. Thank you ever most kindly for your anticipated patience, tolerance, understanding, consideration & assistance. Take very good care & have yourself a most joyous day, every day &
a most joyous weekend too, what's left of it anyway! Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-19-06 | | sitzkrieg: <As for the Qf3 double attack, that's ok. When we move the King, we can always move him to b7, protecting the rook which will protect the bishop in turn.> Qf3--Kb7 cant be played, thats the point! |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: Hello again <sitzkrieg> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Ok now I'm completely confused. I thought you meant double attacking our King & f8-bishop. So if our King is not the one being attacked what's the other thing being attacked? Remember, at this point
the knight is still at c3, our white squred bishop is at b3, White has a pawn at a4, we still have ours at a6 & b5, everything is the same on the Kingside for both sides, the Queen is now at d3 checking us & we just moved the King to c8 IN MY VARIATION, just to
make sure no one misunderstands. So, after moving to c8, what else is the Queen attacking from f3 besides our bishop on c8? Thanks much for taking the time to clear this up for me. Much appreciated. Take very good care & have
a great day. Cheers & I'll talk to you soon! :) |
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| Feb-19-06 | | RonB52734: <cogano> Isn't 37...Bc4 38.Qxc4 Rf8+ 39.Kg1 axb5 40.Qxb5+ Ke7 exactly the same as 37...Rf8+ 38.Kg1 (or whatever) 38...axb5 39.Qxb5+ Ke7 40.Qxb3 except that 37...Bc4 costs us a tempo? I think that when we take the Knight, they will play QxP+ (not PxP), and then pick up the Bishop. I would think they want the Pawn on the a-file where the queening square can't be reached by our dark-squared Bishop. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | sitzkrieg: In your latest post i dont understand why we would remove the queen from attacking d6; if we hit the knight the queen will move away anyway for it has to take our bishop.
I do however agree with ur general plan. In your latest line i see one glitch, if 11 Kd5 then Kd6 is not possible and we need to move the bishop. So i am not totally convinced, but i may be missing something here. I think Bc4 and directly hitting b5 lead to the same position with the queen on b3 and the black king on e7.
I am now thinking of not playing Rf8 then but Rc8, followed by regrouping the bishop to c5 and a7.
If we move Rf8 we let the king choose wich side to be on and also in some lines we have problem with covering a7/the kingside when our king is in the way. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | sitzkrieg: <I think that when we take the Knight, they will play QxP+ (not PxP), and then pick up the Bishop. I would think they want the Pawn on the a-file where the queening square can't be reached by our dark-squared Bishop.
>
Very correct i d say |
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| Feb-19-06 | | sitzkrieg: i am off to bed. Good nite all. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: Hello <RonB52734> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. & glad to hear from you again. As for what you're suggesting, after Qxb3, if we try my idea of Rc8, we can't bring the rook to
c3, which is vital, in my opinion. Suppose play continues as follows: 1.Nxb5 Rf8+, 2.Kg1 axb5, 3.Qxb5+ Ke7, (NOT 3...Kc7. Because after 4.Qxb3 Rb8, 5.Qc3+, forking our f7 pawn!)4.Qxb3 Rc8, 5.a5 Rc1+, 6.Kf2 Bc5+, 7.Kf3 Kd6, 8.Qb8+ Kc6, 9.a6 Rc3+, 10.Kg4 Ra3 or 10.Ke4 Re3+, 11.Kf1 or anything else Re7, followed by Ra7, which is the most ideal for us, as opposed a3. Why? Because our King, rook
& bishop would be close to each other & White's cursed a-pawn, thus able to protect & assist each other as well as attack that damned pawn! In all the scenarios I considered, we were able to at least get our rook to a3 or, preferrably, return our rook to the 7th
rank, after which White's a-pawn falls. You're welcome to correct me if you're convinced that I'm wrong & mistaken. I could learn a thing or two from you! :)
I await your wisdom & insight. <Good night to you too sitzkrieg>. Take very good care all & have a great day, or night, as the case may be. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-19-06 | | RonB52734: Well, we'd better get down to voting. Our move is due in 12 hours, most of which I will be sleeping. I have a miserable cold and I'm doped up on cold medicine. Checkers, anyone? |
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