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Feb-19-06
 | | WannaBe: You have a cold too?! Join the club. I say we eliminate the knight. That's my vote. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: <RonB52734> I wish you full & speedy recovery. Get plenty of sleep. You'll need it. I'd love to play checkers, except that I don't know how to play it -- unless you're offering to teach me! Also, since my last post, I discovered that regardless whether we play Bc4 or proceed immediately with Rf8+, after Kg1 axb5, Qxb5+ Ke7, Qxb3 Rc8, Qb2 foils the plan of going to c1 with check & forks our g7-pawn, forcing
our King to f7 to guard it. & we have to move the King, because if we played Bc5+ then Bd4, then White has Qb7+ Kd8 (to guard the rook) Qd5+ & then takes the bishop. Or, if we play Be5 immediately, then Qb7+ Rc7, where it's paralyzed there, as is the bishop on e5. I could use some feedback here. I'm
going crazy trying to analyze this on my own. But I don't mean you <Ron>. You
need your rest. I hope you've got someone to make you some chicken noodle
soup & care for you, if only a bit. If you can manage it, try watching something that'll make you laugh, especially laugh hard. Laughing seems to help the immune system when a person
is sick, though I can't tell you why. Anyway, good luck & I wish you well. Take very good care & have a great night. Cheers mate! :) |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Robin01: I will vote for 37...axb5. |
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| Feb-19-06 | | Cogano: Sorry to trouble you further. I just wanted to point out that we may later have a problem getting our bishop to somewhere along the a1-f6 diagonal to protect the g7-pawn, but in such a way that it doesn't lose communication with
the King & Rook. I thought I had it solved but I'm still working on the problem. I'll keep you posted as soon as I can. Thank you most kindly for your patience & understanding. Have a good night all (well it's 11:37PM EST for me anyway.) Cheers! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: Ok. Sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier. Also, my brain seems to be still tired. So, I'm not sure just how
rational it'll prove to be. You may take one look at it & decide that it's nothing more than hogwash. If that turns out to be the case, then I'm sorry for having wasted your precious time on a useless line. But I'm trying my best here. So, without further ado, my line, based on Captain <Ron>'s suggestion of 1.Nxb5 Rf8+ immediately, rather than 1...Bc4 first, which he thinks wastes a tempo. Tell me what you
think. Thanks much, take care & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) 37.Nxb5 Rf8+, 38.Kg1 axb5, 39.Qxb5+ Ke7, 40.Qxb3 Be5, 41.Qe3 Ke6, 42.a5 Rb8, 43.Kf1 Kd5, 44.Qd3+ Bd4, 45.Qf5+ Kc4 [doing us a favour for by checking us => allow us to get closer to the a-file & assist bishop & rook in a-pawn annihilation campaign! ;)], 46.Qf4 Rb7, 47.g4 Bc3, 48.Qf2 Rxa5, 49.h4 Bf6, 50.Qd2 Re5, 51.Qc2+ Kd4, 52.Qd2+ Ke4, 53.Qe2+ Kf4, 54.Qg2 g5, 55.h5 Re4, 56.Kg1 Bd4+, 57.Kh1 Re3, 58.Qf1+ Rf3, 59.Qc1+ Be3, 60.Qc7+ Kxg4, 61.Qc4+ Kg3,
62.Qc7+ Rf4, 63.Qe5 Kf3, 64.Qd5+ Re4, 65.Kh2 g4, 66.Qf7+ Bf4+, (67.Kg1 or Kh1
Re1#) 67.Qxf4+ Rxf4, 68.Kg1 g3, 69.Kf1 Kg4+, (70.Kg2 Rf2+, 71.Kg1 Kh3, 72.Kh1 Rf1#) 70.Ke2 Rf3, 71.Kd2 g2, 72.Kc2 g1=Q, 73.Kb2 Qg2+ 74.K-any Rf1#. I look forward to your input. Cheers!:) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: I'm going to vote for axb5. We have 3 votes for that. I think it's better to keep our options on f8 open in case we need to get the bishop there. We may go for the Rook check when the b3 Bishop falls, if that's the way it plays out. I will wait until about 7:45 to post. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: Hello <RonB52734> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. I really hope you've gotten over your nasty cold & are feeling much better now! :) As for playing axb5 immediately, have you considered the possibility that, because we haven't checked & we have to
respond to check (once the Queen recaptures on b5) the King might move to say g1 or e2 & ruin any plan of being able to co-ordinate our pieces against him? I'm not against keeping our options open. Once we check & we respond to check, we'll have 3 pieces to choose from to support the g7-pawn if we needed to. If we go straight into
axb5, I'm afraid we might return to as before with the bishop paralyzed at f8,
the rook paralyzed at a8, & the King dancing a jig trying to evade the White
Queen. I know you all are rather busy & this can be very demanding in that it may take more time than you may feel that you have to committ to the game. But I really think you should devote a LITTLE (just a little) more time to analyzing the position & the possibilities that might arise before you committ to a move. I've tried variations on R8+ since at least Thursday or Friday & I'm becoming more & more convinced, as time passes, that it is the way to go. But <RonB52734>, you're the captain. So do as you see fit. I won't quibble with you about this. I've done my best to contribute, & that's all I can do. Whether or not you or anyone else of our teammates consider my contributions to be rational & useful (or just plain hogwash) is another matter altogether. If I'm unfortunate enough that the latter is the case, then I hope my effort still counts for something. Thank you, & the other members, for your anticipated & continued patience, tolerance, understanding, consideration
& assistance. Take very good care all & have yourselves a most joyous day, every day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: Note to all my <Dark Horses team-mates>. I'm sure you're very busy & sick & tired of my babbling. I just wanted to take a moment to offer encouragement & support. I think White committed an egregious error by sacrificing their knight. Their Queen, however powerful, can't contain our pieces & prevent them
from destroying the a-pawn & the White King & the rest of their pawns are too far away for the 4 of them to act in concert & act in concert with the a-pawn. So, for so long as we consider our moves carefully, I sincerely believe that WE are now the ones with the advantage, depsite & inspite of White's Queen. Take very good care all & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: Current position, white to play 38.?
click for larger viewProbable continuation is 38.Qxb5+ Ke7 (38...Kc7 allows 39.Qc3+ forking the pawn) 39.Qxb3 (diagram) 
click for larger viewNotice the following about this position:
(a) White's Queen is the only protection for the a pawn. She can give checks, but if and when the checks run out, she needs to have an eye on that pawn. (b) One of the possible Queen checks if it were White's move in the second diagram (which it isn't, of course), is Qb7+, forking the Rook. We have to prevent that. One way is 39...Rf7+, which puts us right into <cogano>'s line. Another is ...Rb8. But ...Ra7 is not (40.Qe3+). (c) I think White's endgame here uses the a pawn to distract us while attempting to chew up our King-side pawns. Instinct tells me that we need our King to go back to the King-side. Right now, however, our King cannot go anywhere on the f-file while our Rook is on a8 (Qf3+). (d) Common wisdom says that Rooks belong behind passed pawns. It would indeed be nice to have our Rook in White's backfield. I'm not sure that Rf8+ is the best way to get there. Rb8 may be better. Just a few thoughts. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: In my point (b), <One way is 39...Rf7+> is a typo. I mean Rf8+ |
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| Feb-20-06 | | sitzkrieg: <(d) Common wisdom says that Rooks belong behind passed pawns. It would indeed be nice to have our Rook in White's backfield. I'm not sure that Rf8+ is the best way to get there. Rb8 may be better.> I dont know if this is the case here.
The pawns promotion field is white, and i think we have to stop it on the black fields. with a rook on say a1 we cant double block in front of the pawns, also hard to switch the rook and coordinate with other pieces. Furthermore i like the idea of preventing the white king to get to help its a pawn, wich means blocking acces by putting the rook on f.e. c8 so it cant pass the c line.
I agree with the rest of your observations but dont see a clear/safe way of bringing our king to our pawns, so maybe we have no choice here. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: <RonB52734> What you suggest is fine & dandy but for one small, tiny weeny problem. The bishop can protect the rook. The rook can protect the bishop. They CANNOT protect each other simultaneously. Do you want to stop the
a-pawn? Then the King must participate. & as for the Kingside pawns, what can White possibly do? Need I remind you, you yourself said that the Queen is now
the only defender of the a-pawn. & for so long as we have the bishop & rook, there isn't a damn thing the White King
is going to be able to do for the White pawns or to the Black pawns. If I am mistaken, then please point out where &
why etc., so as I can learn from my error. Thank you ever most kindly for your anticipated & continued patience, tolerance, understanding, consideration
& assistance. Take very good care & have a great day. Cheers mate! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | sitzkrieg: <Cogano> In reply to your note to ron, and i hope this finds you well and doesnt offend you, for i was not the one adressed, if there is nothing better, wich i doubt, the queen can give up the a pawn and eat our remaining two pawns. Then we will have to combat two connected free pawns, and we will be totally without chances.
Also, we not necesarely need the king to stop the pawn (tho u may be right it may be the best idea), f.e. we can put the bishop before the pawn and the rook on the side covering the bishop with the king covering the rook.
I dont feel like we can go capture the pawn with rook bishop and queen, even if it works, we will loose our remaining pawns. So i think we have no advantage but maybe can put up a though defense. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: Ok, I see both of your points. Something like
38.Qxb5+ Ke7 39.Qxb3 Rf8+ 40.Ke2 Rc8 |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: Hello <sitzkrieg> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Don't sweat it pal. No offence taken. If you want to disagree with me or point out a flaw in
something that I said, then please do so. That's what I've been repeatedly requesting that you & the others do. I need your feedback, explanations & analyses etc. As for the line, I respectfully disagree with you. We've got three pieces to work with that can easily get to the pawns (be it White's a-pawn or our own Kingside pawns) whereas White has only the Queen. Yes I
know, White also has 2 Kingside pawns. But, unlike us, THEIR King is useless to them. Our rook & bishop protect us from the Queen, protect our pawns, as does the King, & attack White's a-pawn &, when we choose to & apply the right plan, White's other pawns. But those very same bishop & rook keep White's King back. Their King is powerless to help out the Queen & Kingside pawns. It
is even powerless to help the a-pawn. If you have a board, online or in real life, then please re-consider the situation & get back to me. I've had a couple of days to explore the various lines related to this. But, maybe in my
euphoria, fatigue & being sold on my own "brilliant" (meaning appearing brilliant but more likely nonsense) ideas, I may have missed something &/or
miscalculated something. I'd really appreciate anyone going over this too &
sharing their feedback with me, you or any of our other teammates. So, thank you kindly for taking the time to share
your insight & I look forward to hearing from you & the others soon. Take very good care all & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: Ok, you guys are losing me. How about a specific line here? They've already played Qxb5+, as we expected, so it's once again our move. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: It looks like ...Ke7 is the only good move at the moment. |
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Feb-20-06
| | WannaBe: Here is the line I posted yesterday...
<37...axb5 38. Qxb3 Rf8+ (can't play 38...bxa4 39. Qb7+! and we lose rook) 37...axb5 38. Qxb5+ Kc7 39. Qxb3 Rf8+ In the second line, I believe white will try to queen the pawn on b8 square.> So I think Kc7 is the best move here. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: <RonB52734> I'm sorry for making you feel lost, as that was not my intention
in the least. As for what we should move, I agree with your move 38...Ke7. During the past few days when I was exploring various lines, I found that when our King was on c7, it created problems for the rook, especially when White "co-operated" but the rook wasn't
able to capitalize on that because the King was in the way. Captain <RonB52734>'s vote: 38...Ke7. Team-Member <Cogano>'s vote: 38...Ke7. Team-Member <WannaBe>'s vote: 38..Kc7. Team-Member <Robin01>'s vote: 38.??? Team-Member <sitzkrieg>'s vote: 38.??? Take very good care all & have a great day. Cheers! :) [Go Captain <Ron> Go! ;) LOL!] |
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| Feb-20-06 | | RonB52734: <WannaBe> 38...Kc7 would seem to keep us from using the c-file to prevent the White King from helping the a-pawn. Also, unless we move the King again, it allows Qc3+, forking our pawn. |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: <RonB52734> That's because we used the bishop to defend the King. But, in hindsight, that was a good idea. It cleared the 8th rank for the rook to move to the post of its choice to attack the King. So long as the King is
on e7 & the bishop on d6 then either or both of them can rescue the g7-pawn. I prefer my own method of getting the bishop to e5 & the King to e6 protecting it. Why that as opposed to putting the bishop on f6? Because I think the bishop is in a more dynamic position on e5, attacking more squares,
squares that our rook might go to, under cover of the bishop! Take care <Ron>. Alas, I may not be around x time
from now when <Robin01> & <sitzkrieg> cast their votes. But I'll do my best. I hope a majority in favour of any move
will be established. I much prefer the easy way out! :) Anyway, take very good
care all & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: So sorry <Ron>, I only just remembered something I wanted to tell you. This is
crucially important:
WHITE DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE BISHOP IMMEDIATELY. WHITE ALWAYS HAS THE OPTION TO GO TO B7 WITH CHECK, CAPTURE OUR ROOK ON A8, THEN TAKE THE BISHOP! If anyone can come up with an antidote to that, please speak up. Thanks all. Cheers! :) |
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| Feb-20-06 | | Cogano: <Ron> Sorry to bother you again. In light of the risk to our rook from Qb7+, <WannaBe>'s suggested move of 38...Qc7 seems to be more prudent. I don't like the fact that it'll block our rook. But better have a rook to play with, even if somewhat blocked, than none at all! ;) If you find a way to rescue the rook without blocking it, then I SUPPORT THAT MOVE. IF NO OTHER WAY IS FOUND TO ADDRESS THE ROOK'S PROBLEM, THEN I CHANGE MY VOTE TO 38...Kc7. So, <Ron> you can vote for me, if I'm not online at the time. Like I said, if
you find a better alternative to Kc7, then I vote for that alternative. If not, then I vote for Kc7. Thanks much mate. Take very good care & have a great day. Cheers! :) |
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Feb-20-06
| | WannaBe: Well, here is the current position...
click for larger viewI believe, if our king goes go e7, Qb7+ |
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Feb-20-06
| | WannaBe: Or, let's look at it from a different angle...
we have these possibilities...
Kc7, Kc8, Kd8, Ke7, Ke6. We can't move a piece to blockk the check. |
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