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Mar-03-06
 | | WannaBe: "Check 'em when they're up
Check 'em when they're down
Check 'em when all around."
Apologies to D. Henley |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: Hi guys. I only just regained my Internet connection. My whole area was out. So libraries & Internet cafés were
useless too. I'll reply to what you said shortly. But, first, I want to post the 3rd line I was trying to post when my Internet connection failed. Line #3: 4.Qc6 Rd7+, 45.Ke4 Rc7, 46.Qa8 Re7+, 47.Kf5 Kc7, 48.Qa6 Kd7, 49.Qb5+ Kc8, 50.Qc5+ (or else they may fall prey to the forking Re5+!)
50...Rc7, 51.Qf8+ Kb7, 52.Qb4+ Ka8.
[For now, the position may be ideal. BUT do not forget that g5-square that I
tried so hard to warn you about. I told you many, many times that their King's best squares for a pawn advance against g5 are f4 & f5, where he is right now. All they have to do is hold the Queenside position with their Queen
& use their King to force their Kingside pawns through. When play comes
to g5, you will realize the folly ofBb8. We need to be able to assist whichever side needs us. That's why
a central square would've been best for the bishop. If need be, we could post it on a7 or capture there. Or, if need be, we could post it on f6, depending on their play & the over-all position. Every time I try to come up with a line, I try my best to make it flexible enough to address present concerns, but in such a way that it's feasible to address concerns on the other side of the board, without loss of tempo, let alone material! So, yes, where the Queenside is concerned, this
grouping is great. But play is not static, & we'll have to spend one too many moves regrouping so as to allow our pieces to "communicate" with each other AND both sides of the board. To my knowledge, the one place on the board that most & best allows such communication is the centre! You're welcome to disagree. After all, both your knowledge & experience far exceed my own! :)] I hope at least part of any of my lines proves helpful. Take very good care all & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: I guess you're right <Ron>. But, we're all human beings. So I have to bear in mind the remote possibility of an egregious error by them that would allow us a win instead! What worries me
now is that they have greater control of the centre. That is not good for us!
Endgame or not, if there's one thing that's been repeated in anything & everything I've ever come across about chess is that the player/group that controls the centre has the better & more winning position! Well, I have other things I need to do. So it'll probably be another couple of hours before I can get back to you. In the meantime, you have my 3rd solution to check out. Take very good care all & have a great day & a great weekend too.
Cheers mates! :) |
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| Mar-03-06 | | RonB52734: The way I see it, their King cannot find safety in front of their Kingside pawns. We can continually check them around until we get a fork of K+Q or a fork of K+P. Thus, I see their move "forward" to Ke4 as a feint. To escape the checks, they have to go behind the pawns and then, I believe, weaken the pawns by moving one to block a bishop check. Then, we may have a perpetual. I think we need to see if I'm wrong, because otherwise, I believe it's a forced draw (or a mistake on their part by trying to bring the King forward). As I see it, any move that does not check them right now risks losing, and would only have a chance to win if they blunder. Pressing the checks seems, anyway, to remove the risk of loss (while still preserving the chance to win if they blunder) (but, "a", they won't blunder, and "b", one should never choose a move in hopes that one's opponent will fail to find the correct reply. Certainly not against opposition this strong). |
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Mar-03-06
| | WannaBe: If our goal is to chase the white's king back to h2, we can accomplish this without much problem. The question that follows, is what is our plan/goal after that? I think with R + B + K we can hold off the a8=Q or it will end up with ...Kxa8 then race back to K-side and help the g & h pawns. |
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| Mar-03-06 | | RonB52734: Come on team! Votes! Votes! I can guarantee you I won't be up before 6 a.m. EST, so if you want me to post our move, you'd better vote in the next two hours!! |
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| Mar-03-06 | | sitzkrieg: I voted!!!!!!!!:D |
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| Mar-03-06 | | sitzkrieg: I believe Cogano likes Rc7 relatively best.
Robin is inclined to Re7, but indeed has not voted.
I voted Re7check.
Wannabe has a good point, what do we do with K on h2, i dont think we can make perpetual, but we may have chances to hold the endgame if their king is far away. |
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| Mar-03-06 | | sitzkrieg: I am gonna vote for our next move in advance, if they move king to f line, then i vote for Rf7check, if they go to c line, i vote Rc7 check.
Good nite! |
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| Mar-03-06 | | RonB52734: I think with K on h2 we play Rf2+ and then Bxg3. I'm falling asleep here, folks. I'm going to post our move at 11 pm. EST if I'm awake. If I'm not still awake, I guess that means we lose on time. |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Robin01: I'm here. I vote for 45...Re7+
Here is a line we can hope for:
45...re7+
46.Kf5, Rf7+
47.Kg4, Rf4+
48.Kh5, Rf5+
49.Kh4, Rxa5 and then it will be extremely hard for them to win. Anyway, even if they then play Kf3 we can play Rf7+ and see what develops. Of course, if they go back to d4 we can repeat the position. |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Robin01: Regarding Rc7+, I think it is better to chase their king than their queen in a position like this. So my vote, again, is 45...Re7+ |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: I only just got back & I will shortly post an expanded version of my 3rd line. Sorry about what I said before. Anyway, this line can give us a WIN, not merely a draw, but a WIN. So I vote for Rc7.
Take care all & have a great day. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: I only just got back & I'll provide you with an expanded version of my line
(which is to take the rook to c7). I thought of 2 versions actually (one with an h-pawn advance & another with a g-pawn advance.) Alas, I didn't write
down the 2nd version & so I forgot how it supposed to go. Oh well. In any case, you're welcome to disagree of course. As I'm way out of my league here! :) Line 3 (h-pawn advance)
44.Qc6 Rd7+, 45.Ke4 Rc7, 46.Qa8 Re7+, 47.Kf5 Kc7, 48.Qa6 Kd7, 49.Qb5+ Kc8, 50.Qc5+ (or else they may fall prey to the forking Re5+!)
50...Rc7, 51.Qf8+ Kb7, 52.Qb4+ Ka8, 53.h4 Rb7, 54.Qf8 (To pin our bishop to our King!)
54...Rb5+, 55.Ke4
(If Kg6, then Rg5+)
55...Rg5, 56.Kf3 Rg6
(Obviously aiming for Rf6+, forking the Queen!)
57.Qd8 Ka7, 58.Qd4+ Ka6, 59.Qb6+ Rxb6, 60.axb6 Bg3, 61.Kg4 Be5, 62.Kf5 Bf6, 63.g4 g5, 64.hxg5 Bxg5 Then we merrily march our King, capture their pawn & queen ours, which they can't stop 65.Ke4 Kxb6, 66.Kf3 Kc5, 67. Kg3 Kd5, 68.Kf3 Ke5, 69.Kg3 Ke4, 70.Kh3(or g2 or
f2) Kf4 etc.
Or 64.Kg6 Be7, 65.Kxh6 gxh4, 66.Kg7 h3, 67.Kxf7 h2 etc. |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: Hey <Ron> are you still up? I just checked the <me to play> forum & found that our move wasn't posted. I must continue to insist on Rc7. Other lines allow us a draw. This move can let us draw & can let us win, depending on what they play. So if you want a draw,
you'll still get it with this move. If you want a win, it is also possible with this move. But you're all welcome to disagree. It is already clear that you're all still oh so focused on getting a draw. I think that is wrong. We CAN WIN. I think we should alwasy try to find
"flexible" moves, moves that can lead to a draw if they anticipate our
"winning" plan, or win if they don't. That way we always keep our options open. If you keep aiming for a draw, you'll lose on any opportunity(ies) that we get that let us win. Even if they blunder, if our position is one that lets us draw, any benefits we get from taking advantage of their blunder may be offset by that drawish position. I may not have your (plural) knowledge & experience. But, ever since I joined,
I always aimed to take present, short-term future & long-term future into consideration. That's why the lines I post are so long/deep. Anyway, I made my argument & posted my vote. The rest is up to you. There isn't more that I can do. Take very good care & have a great night. Cheers mate! :) |
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| Mar-03-06 | | Cogano: I'm sorry. I only just checked & found myself in error. It would appear you did post it after all. Thinking about it, if you change your minds & like my 3rd line, it could still be played after Re7+. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE remember the danger of the g5-square. Checking them only drives their King that much closer
to g5, to assist their Kingside pawn advance. You're still fixated on the a-pawn's danger. All the lines I
posted thus far took BOTH sides of the board into consideration, since both sides have risks & threats & attacks of
their own! I hope you will remember that Kingside, while considering the best way to deal with the a-pawn. Thanks much. :) Take very good care all & have a great night/day & a great weekend too. Cheers mates! :) |
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Mar-03-06
| | WannaBe: I came on a little late, <sitzkrieg>, <Robin01> both voted for the check, and I believe <RonB52734> did too. So my vote wasn't really a deciding factor/relevent. We can (wait and) see what they do after this and next move and develope a long term plan/goal. And (then) determine if we wish for white to have their king on h2. |
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| Mar-04-06 | | Cogano: Hello again <WannaBe> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Okay, no harm
done with that move anyway. It's just that I'm afraid of the g5-square. Bb8 was supposed to take care of the a-pawn's advance. But I'm worried about a
"two-sided" advance, meaning an advance on both sides of the board. & their King is more than able to help with an advance on that side! I hope you & the others will keep that, & especially that square, in mind, when you consider
future moves. Take very good care & have a great night/day & a great weekend too. Cheers mate! :) |
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| Mar-04-06 | | Cogano: Sorry to bother you folks again. I just wanted to ask: Do you know anyone on this site who is sufficiently high-ranked (IM, GM etc.) who would be willing & who would have sufficient free time to both analyze the game & also analyze my ideas (if I approach them about it) when the game terminates? Thanks much. Take very good
care & have a great day/night & a great weekend too. Cheers mates! :) |
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| Mar-04-06 | | RonB52734: <Cogano> To save me having to go back and look through a lot of posts, please post the specific line(s) that cause you to worry about g5. |
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| Mar-04-06 | | Cogano: Sorry to trouble you further folks. But I'd really appreciate it if someone
would explain to me what, exactly, is our strategy, after our checks stop. Since our moves are going to be limited
to our 3 pieces, whereas they can move either piece or any of their pawns (& this variety of choices makes things rather unpredictable), I'm not sure what we're aiming for. Sure, stopping the a-pawn's advance is pretty obvious.
But, that obviously depends on whether their Queen will allow us the opportunity. I still think my latest line (Line #3) has a lot of potential. As always, thank you most kindly for your anticipated & continued patience tolerance, understanding, consideration
& assistance. Take very good care & have a great day & a great weekend too.
Cheers mates! :) |
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| Mar-04-06 | | sitzkrieg: <cogey> We posted some lines before including what we have when the checks stop. Ron pointed out the bishop manouvre if the king goes to g1, and i already posted a line what we might do if the king moves forward.
About your other question,
I think after the game some strong players around here probably will want to analyze this game, one of our opponents was a candidate master (brankat), so he may have some things to say on the matter. |
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| Mar-04-06 | | RonB52734: I hate to sound like a broken record, folks, but I have now spent a considerable time going over this and I firmly believe the game can be forced to a draw. (I do not believe black has winning chances with best play). I believe White's best try is this:
46.Kf5 Rf7+ 47.Kg6 Rf6+ 48.Qxf6 gxf6 49.Kxh6 (49.Kxf6 is actually easier for us to draw, but with largely similar themes) 49...Ba7 50.Kg6 Bd4. Now, I think you will see that they cannot prevent our King from getting to g8 and h8. Our Bishop's true job is to prevent the a-pawn from queening. The other main try for White is
46.Kf3 Rf7+ 47.Ke2 Re7+ 48.Kf1 Rf7+ 49.Kg1 Ba7+ 50.Kh1 Rf1+ 51.Kh2 Bb7+ 52.g3 Rf7 and they simply can't force their way through. |
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| Mar-04-06 | | sitzkrieg: Ron I posted a similar line as your first line before. I think we probably can make it a draw (i believe i had a slightly difference in the end) if they decide to sac the queen. It is very difficult to see however, many lines. The 2nd line is I think the most dangerous for us, but certainly worth a try. I have to agree with you and think we are fighting for a draw here, and not a win. |
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| Mar-04-06 | | sitzkrieg: I must say i am very pleased with the way we play this endgame so far! |
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