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chancho
Member since May-16-05
<Jer 20:10-13

Jeremiah said:

"I hear the whisperings of many:
'Terror on every side!
Denounce!
Let us denounce him!'
All those who were my friends are on the watch for any misstep of mine.

Perhaps he'll be trapped; then we can prevail, and take our vengeance on him.

But the LORD is with me, like a mighty champion: my persecutors will stumble, they will not triumph.

In their failure, they will be put to utter shame, to lasting, unforgettable confusion.

O LORD of hosts, you who test the just, who probe mind and heart, let me witness the vengeance you take on them, for to you, I have entrusted my cause.

Sing to the LORD,
praise the LORD,
for he has rescued the life of the poor
from the power of the wicked!">

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<1 Corinthians 13

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<The Promise of the Lord's Coming

The Second Letter of Peter

Chapter 3

1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; in them I am trying to arouse your sincere intention by reminding you

2 that you should remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets, and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken through your apostles.

3 First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts

4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!?

5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water,

6 through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished.

7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the godless.

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.

9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.

11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be in leading lives of holiness and godliness,

12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set ablaze and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire?

13 But, in accordance with his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness is at home.

Final Exhortation and Doxology

14 Therefore, beloved, while you are waiting for these things, strive to be found by him at peace, without spot or blemish;

15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,

16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

17 You therefore beloved, since you are forewarned, beware that you are not carried away with the error of the lawless and lose your own stability.

18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.

Amen.>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Psalm 23

The Lord is my shepherd; there is nothing I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.>

Chessgames.com Full Member

   chancho has kibitzed 44554 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Sep-22-25 A Kimmel (replies)
 
chancho: Look who's back!
 
   Sep-20-25 Chessgames - Sports (replies)
 
chancho: I see nary a mention of Terrance Crawford defeating Canelo Alvarez on this page. First guy to win undisputed championships in three weight divisions. Henry Armstrong won three back in the 30's, but they were not undisputed. Manny Pacquiao won 8... but again, not undisputed. Crawford
 
   Aug-14-25 Chessgames - Guys and Dolls (replies)
 
chancho: More, More, More. (Andrea True)
 
   Jun-07-25 Norway Chess (2025) (replies)
 
chancho: He left the championship on his own terms. He has won everything in sight. No better way to exit the stage.
 
   Jun-03-25 D Gukesh vs Carlsen, 2025 (replies)
 
chancho: Also called: The Angry Fist.
 
   May-27-25 Carlsen vs D Gukesh, 2025 (replies)
 
chancho: <Poor is the apprentice who does not surpass his Master.”" - Leonardo da Vinci>
 
   May-24-25 Bogdan Pietrusiak
 
chancho: His highest rating was 2310 according to this link which translates in Polish and Spanish: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogda...
 
   May-09-25 Chessgames - Music (replies)
 
chancho: All this Steely Dan talk... Here's a song from 1973: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h-...
 
   Apr-29-25 perfidious chessforum (replies)
 
chancho: Perf, just heard about this: <The White House has hit back against a reported plan by Amazon to detail the price impact of Donald Trump's trade tariffs to its customers, calling it a "hostile" political act.> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c... It's like, how dare Amazon
 
   Apr-26-25 John Eyre (replies)
 
chancho: From Tournament: 33rd Hastings Premier 1957/58... One-Week Open B: (1) <John Eyre> (London N14) 4½/5; (2) Peter Merrett (East Grinstead) 3½; (3) William Arnold Parkin-Moore (Mitcheldean) 2½; (4) N. W. Robinson 2; (5) R. L. Baker 1½; (6) Lewis James Worsell 1. ...
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Chess and Things

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 70 OF 200 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-11-09  edda zeitz: <Some strategic questions concerning 1.e4 g6>

A) Pawn structure:
Should we play d4, e4, f4
or d4, e4, h3
or d4, e4, f3 (with the intention h4-h5)
or transpose to KI with c4, d4, e4?

B) e5:
Should we allow Black to play e7-e5
or should we prevent it with e4-e5?

C) Position of Bishops:
Should the LSB go to e2, d3, or c4?
Should the DSB go to e3, f4 or g5?

D) Queen side:
Should we prevent Black's b7-b5 with a4
or should we defense Nc3 with a3
or should we allow b5-b4?

E) Castling:
0-0 or 0-0-0?

Jan-11-09  sentriclecub: <OhioChessFan: I don't know how to implement it, but I think that there should be a concerted effort in the Opening to simply shut up. Maybe one day before our first move, and then for the next 10 moves, stop the chatter, stop the endless debates about e4 vs. d4, stop the posts about having never played this or that line, stop the posts about the weather, stop the suggestions of silly gambits we know won't be played, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. There will be a lot of voters in the first few moves who will not be especially sophisticated players. Many won't read anything. For those who do, I hate to think we are going to swamp them with pages of pointless kibitzing. There will be some necessary points to discuss, of course, but our transition from the pregame to the Opening in terms of legitimate kibitzing is really bad. Maybe the forum coordinator could play reveille and call the troops to order at a reasonable interval before our first move.>

This is only because of our self-imposed limitations. Kutztown writes in his post <...kutztown46: I posted the following in my forum in response to <kwid>:

...we have designated <chancho>'s forum for Umansky pre-game strategic and openings planning. Discussion is ongoing there, and you are part of it. However, you are suggesting that this forum needs to be split into several forums,...>

Forums can't be split unless someone manually sorts and re-sorts the relevant kibitzing to the new forum location. The analysis tree doesn't have this problem and neither does wikibooks.org

There are infinitely many forums to branch to, and forums branch with very little effort. A page grows until its full, then fine details are discussed in greater depth on the relevant branch.

I'm still waiting for kwid's email address so that everyone involved in the openings project has reliable and moderated communication. The goal of the operation will be to create a very fine opening book that completely covers every relevant variation as the game progresses during the first 10 moves.

Obviously people vote however they want, so if kwid commits to helping me build the wiki, we need at least 3 people who are strong analysts or strong players. There is no guarantee that I'll hear back from kwid, nor a guarantee that the world team will listen to orders, so I'm asking 3-4 reliable and dedicated hard workers to send me an email if you are interested. (but wait until I hear back from kwid, if he accepts this invitation) He has correctly explained our need for a respected opening preparation and a single unmoderated thread where anyone can say anything is not a good recipe for the result intended.

<kwid> if you read this, please tell me yes or no. I need someone who is good at chess to spearhead this. I'll take care of the unpleasant work such as the formatting and entry into wikibooks.org

I dont want to obligate you if you're not interested. Its going to be at least 3 hours of work per week for me, and probably even more for you. I've gotten one email since I announced an hour ago. The proposal is on hold until you have had plenty of time to think about it.

<OCF> furthermore, if people like kwid have spent several hours compiling, reviewing, and improving upon current opening theory then we will easily become more influential than the OE because given the types of voters you mentioned, there are more people who are passionate about chess and want to perform at our top ELO.

RV for example volunteers his top-notch machines even though we have plenty of people on the team with just quad-cores. I'm willing to put in hours of tedious formatting work just to give more incentive for kwid and other strong players to work with one another. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think presenting the team with a rock solid opening preparation lead by kwid and others will appeal to a silent majority of voters.

If a small group of our top players can provide competent leadership and offer a valuable summary style opening preparation that is extremeley beneficial, then I would expect teammates who want to make the best moves will pleasantly find that their interests are aligned with the small group's interest. A group dedicated to a common interest will outnumber the share of random teammates who all love the same pet line for a given move.

Wikibooks has been waiting for a couple years, and the reason no one has done it yet is because everybody who would take on the task would want to copyright it and sell it on a bookstand.

Kwid loves chess, and although I love starcraft more than chess, I do love the opening phase of chess and the nagging philosophical question about deviating from main lines. My email address is at the top of my forum..

Jan-11-09  DanLanglois: <edda zeitz: <imag: M Plomp vs M Umansky, 2006>

1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 8.e5 Ne8 9.Re1 dxe5 10.dxe5 Nc7 11.Bf1 Ne6 12.Bc4

Deviations possible:

<11.Bf4> Ne6 12.Bg3 Qb6 13.a3 Kamsky-Nogueiras 1993

<9.exd6> Nxd6 10.Bf4 Nb6 11.Be5

<7.Bf4> Nbd7 8.Qd2 b5 9.e5 dxe5 10.dxe5 Nh5 11.Bh6 Rogers

<or 7.Re1> Nbd7 8. a4 or e5

<5.h3> 0-0 6.Be3

<4.Be3>>

9. a3


click for larger view

Jan-11-09  kwid: Jan-11-09
< sentriclecub: <kwid> if you read this, please tell me yes or no.>

Let me tell you first that I admire your enthusiasm about the prospects of rewriting chess theory and providing means for easy access world wide.

You seem to have certainly enough energy to keep pushing the world team into a new direction to optimize our potential analysing capability. You may have to carry a heavy workload to see it implemented and carried out successfully. My involvement will be very limited because of my inadequate writing skill and thus ineligible for any communications tasks assignments.

But it may take a more conciliatory approach than your if I may say so, to convince analysts to direct their efforts into a collective pool and giving up their individual recognitions to a large extent.

Therefor such a change requirement runs contra to our personal needs and wants.

As you rightly guessed it would require a team effort where the core is committed to create and implement the necessary changes to our current method for searching and selecting our best move candidate.

I posted a reply for <Kutz> at his site in regard of this subject already.

Jan-11-09  edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: 9.a3>

Hi Dan! At first glance I couldn't match your move 9.a3 and your diagram with the move order of Plomp-Umansky.

Obviously you had in mind: 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 <8.Re1 Qc7 9.a3>

Looking at the diagram and without use of an engine I would say that Black can equalise with 9. - e5.

Jan-11-09  kwid: Jan-11-09 < edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: 9.a3> >

A thorough analysis of the available ECO9 or Austrian Attack may indicate to be superior to BCO8.

We need also a summary of the e4/d4/c4 setup to see where it would lead us in comparison with the Standard 2 knights and the Austrian lines.

Jan-11-09  sentriclecub: Ok <kwid>, well I was trying to not attraction too much attention to it, but I have saved the best part of the openings project for last.

Drop me an email so I can tell you more about it in private (to keep it a surprise for as long as possible).

I don't know where to post this, so I will delete the message soon after you have had a chance to read it.

There is much interest from my first couple email responses. You are our team's last leader who is still active. Don't you want to work with our team's best handful of teammates to bring the focus of our game back to the primary goal of world class chess analysis?

Last year when I showed you the wikibook, you saw its potential. Whatever time constraints you have, I can work around. Please allow me to privately tell you the best part that I've been saving.

Jan-11-09  sentriclecub: I can commit 7 hours per week minimum, and 20 hours per week maximum. My writings skills are sufficient for the project. I have worked at wikipedia for a while and have written some papers for them.

You can leave the writing to me. You just ship me the analysis and you can worry more about the fun stuff. I guess I could work more than 20 hours per week, but I don't think I would have that much to do. I could work more slowly I guess and stretch it out? The wikibook is fairly simple once I learn the formatting. I'm still saving the best part for last.

Jan-11-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: <kwid>

While I may have understood what you want to do, I failed to realize that you desired me to be the person who would make it happen. That is simply not possible for two reasons - my lack of time and my lack of expertise in the openings area.

If you are unable / unwilling to follow the steps that I suggested, then your best option is probably to work with <sentriclecub>, who obviously is very passionate about your idea, and is willing to commit significant amounts of time that I cannot.

Jan-11-09  DanLanglois: <edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: 9.a3>

Hi Dan! At first glance I couldn't match your move 9.a3 and your diagram with the move order of Plomp-Umansky.

Obviously you had in mind: 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 <8.Re1 Qc7 9.a3>

Looking at the diagram and without use of an engine I would say that Black can equalise with 9. - e5.>

my preferred move order:

1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7. Re1 Nbd7 8. h3 Qc7 9. a3

& your 9...e5, ok, 10. Be3


click for larger view

Pirc/Classical Variation B08

Jan-12-09  edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.Re1 Nbd7 8.h3 Qc7 9.a3 e5 10.Be3>

10. - b5 11.Qd2 Bb7 =
Compare Gurevich-Dzindzichashvili, 1992 (where White played Bg5 instead of Be3).

IMO 9.a3 is too hesitant and slow.

Jan-12-09  imag: <edda zeitz: <Some strategic questions concerning 1.e4 g6>

A) Pawn structure:
Should we play d4, e4, f4
or d4, e4, h3
or d4, e4, f3 (with the intention h4-h5)
or transpose to KI with c4, d4, e4?

B) e5:
Should we allow Black to play e7-e5
or should we prevent it with e4-e5?

C) Position of Bishops:
Should the LSB go to e2, d3, or c4?
Should the DSB go to e3, f4 or g5?

D) Queen side:
Should we prevent Black's b7-b5 with a4
or should we defense Nc3 with a3
or should we allow b5-b4?

E) Castling:
0-0 or 0-0-0? >

Good questions. Concerning question B, I'd love to push e5 to steer the game away from the setup that GM Umansky knows everything about (pawns at c6, d6, e5, threat of f5). But so far, in lines that I've seen, Black can equalize if White tries to insert e5 first.

Jan-12-09  imag: I suggest that we enter the KID with

1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. c4

GM Umansky does not play KI after 1.d4, he prefers NID/QID so obviously he does not feel entirely comfortable with the KID. Moreover, in the game against van Oosterom, after <1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. c4 d6 4. Nc3> Umansky quickly deviated from the main line with <4...e5> and got into a difficult position (he managed to save the draw though)

J Van Oosterom vs M Umansky, 2006

Jan-12-09  crazymate: swiss gambit.. the plan isn't to castle again. LOL.

1. f4 f5 2. e4 fxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. g4 Nc6 5. g5 Ng8

the point of g4 is to kick the knight with g5 and win back the gambit pawn. (e6 and d5 are both very playable options for black which lead to very beautiful chess games.)

1. f4 f5 2. e4 fxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. g4 Nc6 5. g5 Ng8 6. Nxe4 e6 7. Nf3 Nge7 8. d4 Nf5 9. c3 Be7 10. d5 Na5 11. b4 Nd6 12. Nxd6+ cxd6 13. Qd4 e5 14. fxe5 O-O 15. Qe4 dxe5 16. bxa5 Qxa5 17. Bd2 d6 18. c4 Qa6 19. c5 b5 20. a4 Bf5 21. Qe3 Qb7 22. c6 Qb6 23. Nh4 Bc2 24. Qxb6 axb6 25. Bxb5 Bb3 26. Rf1 Rxf1+ 27. Kxf1 Bxd5 28. c7 Rf8+ 29. Ke2 Be6 30. Ba6 Bg4+ 31. Kd3 d5 32. Bb7 Be6 33. a5 e4+ 34. Kc2 bxa5 35. Rxa5 Kf7 36. Rxd5!!
the point is his bishop can't leave the promotion diagonal. Bc8 37. Rf5+ king moves are met by ♖ook takes ♖ook. and ♗f6 ♗d5+♔e8 gxf6 wins a bishop. Bxf5 38. Nxf5 Re8 39. Nxe7 Kxe7 40. c8=R Rxc8+ 41. Bxc8 Kd6 42. Bf5 h6 43. Bf4+ Kd5 44. gxh6 gxh6 45. Bxh6 Ke5 46. Bg6 Kd5 47. Kd2 Ke5 48. Ke3 Kf6 49. Bxe4 Ke6 50. Bf4 Ke7 51. h4 Ke6 52. h5 Kf6 53. h6 Ke6 54. h7 Kf7 55. h8=Q Ke7 56. Qg7+ Ke6 57. Bc6 Kf5 58. Bd7#

Jan-12-09  imag: 1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Be2 O-O 6. O-O c6 7. h3 Nbd7 8. Bf4 Qa5


click for larger view

Not so deep Rybka analysis:

19 ply

1. ² (0.31): 9.a3

2. ² (0.28): 9.Qd2 e5 10.Be3 exd4 11.Bxd4 Re8 12.Rfe1 b5 13.a3 <+0.19/17>

In all lines where Black plays e5, White gets favorable endgame but nothing more. I'd prefer more complex lines.

Jan-12-09  crazymate: I like
1.e4 (black move) 2.Nf3 (black move) 3. Bc4 or Bb5 (black move) 4. 0-0 (black move) as a good starter for most any white game.

the point is to get your king to safety and develop your kingside fully in 4 moves.

this opening can take you into spanish and italian games as well as sicilan variants. its very flexible classical style chess and computers like the open games of e4. as their books are full of e4 games.

but it can be kinda bland for advanced players.

Jan-12-09  crazymate: 1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Be2 O-O 6. O-O c6 7. h3 Nbd7 8. Bf4 Qa5

( i don't like h3) i'd like to think white can do better and h3 loosens up your king position in some ways.

usually as soon as a player neglects the center with g6. you should look at how best to block off that diagonal with pawns.

e4 g6 c3 (with the idea of d4 later to put a chain of pawns on his fionchetto diagonal) with Nbd2.

but d4 is good theory too and it does'nt block our knight from c3.

your line reminds me of the GM Nigel short from UK.. in his kings indian video.

Jan-12-09  edda zeitz: <imag: In all lines where Black plays e5, White gets favorable endgame but nothing more.>

That's the problem. BTW these positions resemble positions from the Philidor opening (1.e4 e5 2.Sf3 d6) and look drawish.

After replaying about 50 games I think we should deviate from the main lines by early playing Be3.

But the deviation 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be2 Bg7 <5.g4> seems not to be a good solution. Black could answer 5. - d5!
eg. 6.e5 Ne4 7.Qd3 c5
or 6.f3 dxe4 7.fxe4 c5.

Jan-12-09  imag: <edda zeitz> What do you think about the KID idea?
Jan-12-09  DanLanglois: <edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.Re1 Nbd7 8.h3 Qc7 9.a3 e5 10.Be3>

10. - b5 11.Qd2 Bb7 =
Compare Gurevich-Dzindzichashvili, 1992 (where White played Bg5 instead of Be3).

IMO 9.a3 is too hesitant and slow.>

11. dxe5 dxe5 12. Qd2


click for larger view

12...Re8 13. Rad1 a5 14. Bd3 Rd8 15. Ne2


click for larger view

Jan-12-09  DanLanglois: <imag>, you're a 10...h5 voter.

comments?

Jan-12-09  capafan: After reviewing the comments so far, and after looking at the possibility of Nf3, I am leaning toward <kwid>'s suggestion of 1. c4, openly inviting a KI. There is more theory available to us compared to the Robatsch/Pirc which he appears to own. I realize many of the more aggressive members will oppose the possibility of playing a "boring English" but truth be told the English still is played frequently at top levels and anyway I believe he will play a KI instead.

I would ask <kwid> if there are any advantages to reaching the KI through 1. c4 or 1. Nf3?

Jan-12-09  edda zeitz: <imag: What do you think about the KID idea?>

Remember the start of the game against GJ Timmerman. The majority voted 1.d4 because they wanted to play a KID. At that time I strongly opposed this idea because I was convinced that a KID would be too complicated for the team and that we would not be able to originate ideas like (let's say) Radjabov.

Now the situation has changed: On the one hand we have lost strong players like Thorsson who was very experienced in opening theory (and I miss him; had he attended the second game against AN we would have mastered the opening in a better way). On the other hand we have players like kwid (it is a pity that his comments are too polite) AND we have much more fast and first-class engines.

To make it short: Why not the KID! Maybe we could play a thrilling game with high risks and generate more winning chances than in a conventional Pirc/Robatsch.

Jan-12-09  edda zeitz: <DanLanglois: comments?>

Looking at your position after move 15 I would say (without using an engine) that White has nothing, no advantage. Black could regroup in many ways, eg with Nf8-e6 or with Nb6, Be6 and Nc4. Of course I might err, but I think it could easily be checked with an engine.

Jan-12-09  DanLanglois: <edda zeitz: I think it could easily be checked with an engine.>

if you say so.

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