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Chessgames Member Support Forum

Kibitzer's Corner
ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 447 OF 1118 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-06-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: When I mentioned the AJ problem, in fact, I meant the troop. I presume <rapidcity> did also. And I for sure agree with your point <Some of these camp followers surprise me because they seem to be otherwise, thoughtful and reasonable normal human beings.>

Some days, I'm just ready to delete my account and move on.

Nov-06-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: I only want one thing.

I want you to act on whistle blowing to do with <AJ vs the world> arguments when they are on important player bios and historical games.

I mainly use this website to research chess history.

If you don't act promptly- if at all- on whistle blowing on the chess history pages, your website will get a reputation as a public joke.

You told us to deal with the <AJ v the World> problem by using the whistle blowing function.

I have. I don't make frivolous whistle blows.

I expect you to hold up your end of your own arrangement.

Please clean up <Sultan Khan> page, or let me know the reason why.

Three days to process a whistle blow on <AJ vs. the World> crap is totally unacceptable.

Do you even know why?

Because it's all over your historical game pages and player bios and more on a daily basis.

I have paid a great deal of money to this website over the years- well over a thousand dollars in fact.

I do not expect preferential treatment because of this.

I do expect you to monitor your website properly.

Thanks in advance.

Nov-07-11  matebay: I agree <twinlark>

hey guys..stop stalking aj...

why you always visiting his restaurant and issue your unwanted critique.

If you don't like his menu, go somewhere else to eat...

Nov-07-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <twinlark> is rarely, if ever, wrong.

Please everybody, if you can resist the temptation, just avoid addressing <AJ> at all- at least on famous game pages, such as <Morphy vs. The Opera> and <Steinitz vs. Bardeleben>.

And please avoid arguments with him on Player pages as well.

If you absolutely must address him with the view to challenge or fight him, at the very least please restrict that to <AJ's> own games pages. There are plenty to choose from.

Nov-07-11  matebay: <Some of these camp followers surprise me because they seem to be otherwise, thoughtful and reasonable normal human beings.>

You thought wrong.

These are misguided souls who have taken an overdoze of "the cure"http://youtu.be/T3tidwW1gGM and decided to turn CG into their own world...in accordance to their own whims and caprices....

Nov-07-11  I play the Fred: Jeez, <matebay>, get over yourself.

It's funny though: you think that because you are right that you have license to say whatever you feel about the "troop"...which is <you> doing the very thing you accuse the troop of.

I won't deny that <SOME> members of the "troop" go beyond simple critique. But what you and others do is equate the attackers in with the critics, lumping them together.

Is it your intention to exempt AJ from criticism altogether?

Nov-07-11  matebay: Hi <I play the fred>

Indeed you have trodden less than others did...

Victor Pascow: The barrier was not meant to be crossed. The ground is sour.

Kudos to you for having snapped out of the mesmerized state in time...

For the others, constructive critique has has turned into a witch hunt...

Looking for that sniping opportunity at every turn....

Aj is a nice fellow...even consented to help the Wesley So page get out of the rut...by providing his free services...

Nov-07-11  Running Hand: 'The troop' does not exist. There are maybe two or three individuals who pursue and taunt AJ obsessively. The others are mostly opportunists -- people who can't resist the temptation to make a comment, maybe a snide or sarcastic one. It can be hard to resist.

But AJ has been tormented so much and so relentlessly that he tends to snap at anyone within range. It may not be a rational thing, but it's a normal response to stress. This is why we see so many posts saying "Jeeze, AJ, I took your side in the past, and now you attack me?"

In an ideal world, the 'opportunists' would step away -- after all, they have no emotional involvement in a flame war. This would leave the core 'troop', the obsessives, more clearly visible. They apparently do have an emotional attachment to flaming AJ.

You can't really blame the man himself. Yes, he lashes out wildly like a cornered animal -- but nobody could tolerate that level of sustained abuse. Rights and wrongs and who-started-its don't matter at all.

Deep down, AJ is just like most of the people who kibitz on CG -- he wants to talk chess and maybe shoot the breeze on other topics that seem relevant, such as anecdotes from his tournament experience. But a few people - not many - think that trying to goad him and hurt him is fun.

It isn't. The first step, as others have suggested, is for the majority to step away from the flames and ignore subsequent temptation.

Thank you.

Nov-07-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Jess> -- < I don't make frivolous whistle blows. >

I'm sure you don't. I don't either. But we should allow for the possibility that other people do, and that these are clogging up the system to some extent.

And we can't ask for *our* very important whistles to be flagged promptly without also asking for the kind of special privileges which you explicitly disavow.

Give the admins a chance. You know they're trying to deal with this as well as is humanly possible. Eh?

Nov-07-11  Karpova: <twinlark: Whatever AJ's faults, it's clear that a significant part of the problem is the "troop" following him around, and in at least one recent instance, not only insulting him but people associating with him.>

I agree with you, especially the last part that seems to have been forgotten by some.

<jessicafischerqueen: Please everybody, if you can resist the temptation, just avoid addressing <AJ> at all- at least on famous game pages, such as <Morphy vs. The Opera> and <Steinitz vs. Bardeleben>.>

I agree with you also but I think that most of those ones you want to reach won't read that.

One typical case (and I will show you an old one from November 2004): Famous chess game Polugaevsky vs Nezhmetdinov, 1958

<LIFE Master AJ: This game is also unsound - Nezh missed a quicker win.>

This is his whole post, there's no part explaining this further. Considering the implications of this statement (e. g. if you choose forced Nalimov TB win in 35 moves over the one in 34 moves your whole play was unsound), people start protesting.

Someone called <RisingChamp> is protesting against it. For sure, LMAJ starts his deescalation strategy by calling him <Rising idiot> Polugaevsky vs Nezhmetdinov, 1958

Behaviour like this (any much more) explains some of the 'violent' reactions towards the LIFE Master though it doesn't excuse them.

Nov-07-11  matebay: As in every legal proceeding, the rules of court provides the best procedure on how to approach and settle disputes between CG kibitzers.

For the AJ bashers, it requires that a valid cause of action in the form of a complaint for violation of an offense or a posting guideline violation must be submitted to CG..either done thru the whistle blowing function, a post in the CG members corner or an email to Mr. Freeman.

This has been exercised to the hilt..the problem is any attempt to its resolution ..is not made transparent such that the impression is one of inaction by CG.

Among the issues to be resolved should be:

<Should factual evidence of past misconduct of accused can be admitted at trial for the purpose of inferring that the accused committed the misconduct at issue.>

There is no written decision (coupled with basis thereof) being posted for every complaint and made available for all to see. Hence, no closure.

It seems only <twinlark> is predisposed to settle the dispute once and for all.

Nov-07-11  matebay: And AJ has filed an application for a restraining order:

<LIFE Master AJ: I am just trying to analyze a game ... and maybe win a few new fans in that part of the world. (As for the group that follows me around ... I consider it a form of STALKING. Its wrong and the admins of this site should put a stop to it! BTW, you don't see me following someone around, trying to bash them and bring them down after every single post.)>

with still no action from CG.

A restraining order or order of protection is a form of legal injunction that requires a party to do, or to refrain from doing, certain acts. A party that refuses to comply with an order faces criminal or civil penalties and may have to pay damages or accept sanctions.

Nov-07-11  matebay: On the restraining order, it seems <jessicafisherqueen> is doing CG's job for them...

<jessicafischerqueen: <twinlark> is rarely, if ever, wrong. Please everybody, if you can resist the temptation, just avoid addressing <AJ> at all- at least on famous game pages, such as <Morphy vs. The Opera> and <Steinitz vs. Bardeleben>.

And please avoid arguments with him on Player pages as well.

If you absolutely must address him with the view to challenge or fight him, at the very least please restrict that to <AJ's> own games pages. There are plenty to choose from.>

But Jess is not as independently placed as <twinlark> so the suggestion may leave much to be desired...

It boils down to one thing..e.g. CG's inability to stay on top of the situation...as it is...AJ has been bashed around for so many years...he has learned to defend himself...but has mimicked some of the qualities of the bullies themselves...CG has failed to prescribe and administer the proper remedies.

Nov-07-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: All this talk of trials and legal proceedings is fascinating, and I have no doubt that <twinlark> would be an excellent and impartial judge. And yet - forgive me, m'lud - the phrase 'kangaroo court' comes to mind.

In any case, where would one find a jury of AJ's peers? Is there a movie I haven't heard of, called *Twelve Angry LifeMasters*? The mind boggles.

Nov-07-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: As a dear friend of mine says, "Never a dull moment."
Nov-08-11  twinlark: <Domdaniel>

True. You can't have anyone being roo'd.

Nov-08-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Dom> I think you're correct. I kind of wish I had only made the last post I put in here now.

That's the only one that makes any actual sense to me. There's certainly no point trying to drive <AJ> off the website and I'm pretty sure almost everyone wishes the squabbling would stay off Player Bio pages and the pages of important historical games.

To have it on the "Opera game" and the "Bardeleben storms out of the room apocryphal story game" was just really low-rent, made the website look low-rent.

No reason for it.

Nov-08-11  twinlark: Apologies for trying to lighten the mood with a lame pun.

I second JFQ's sentiment. Restraint is called for. Some of these unsavoury posts resemble graffiti smeared inside museums and cathedrals.

Nasty and juvie and a huge irritation to the rest of us.

Nov-08-11  LIFE Master AJ: The funny thing is that if everyone (myself included!) followed the posting guidelines (and stuck to chess) there would be no problems.
Nov-08-11  LIFE Master AJ: And for a long time, the sentiment of the group - as a whole - was that it was a funny diversion. (And it seemed to be OK when it was just restricted to my game pages, which really are only a very minor and a microscopic part of this site.) CG probably alllowed it - even enjoyed it - as it drove huge numbers through this site.

However, lately, it seems to be taken to a new level, and follows me everywhere. And - yes, once in a while, I lose my temper and say something inapproriate. Yet I am only human, and I do have my limits. And I am certainly not the only one breaking rules (posting guidelines) here ...

But now that seems to be changing, people are getting tired of it, so maybe something positive will be done.

Nov-08-11  LIFE Master AJ: And while we are on the subject of:
Steinitz vs Von Bardeleben, 1895.

Before I moved in 2007 (I threw out almost all of my old magazines.) ... I put together a long list of references, many in the old "Chess Life" magazine.

I no longer have the mags, but still have lots of books, like "Hastings, 1895." (Centennial Edition) Also, this game is in literally dozens of other books, (One example: The Great Chess Tournaments and their Stories, etc.).

Two important fixes:

#1.) The game was played in Round Ten. (No doubt about this.)

#2.) The last move of the game was 25.RxP/h7+!.

I have submitted this information many times before ...

Nov-08-11  twinlark: Hi <ceegee>

One of the posts on the W So vs Shirov, 2011 page is beyond the Pale. A nasty post from a nasty kibitzer. Please clean up that page, and feel free to delete my latest post on that page as well.

The museums are attracting more graffiti and look like continuing to do so.

Nov-08-11  twinlark: Good stuff!
Nov-08-11  I play the Fred: This clinches it - I'm bringing all of my complaints to <twinlark> from now on.
Nov-08-11  twinlark: <I play the Fred>

They wiped out three pages of posts on that page, including all of mine. It's the first time I've been happy to have my own posts deleted as it got rid of that whole unfortunate conversation from the last few days. You'll notice that <ceegee> left AJ's posts intact as they are actually on topic.

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