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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 375 OF 963 ·
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| Jun-28-08 | | mack: Woah woah, hold up:
<My idea is that (the better) song lyrics (Cohen, Dylan, Costello, Cale, Bowie, Young, Mitchell, POLLARD, Stanshall, Reed, and, um, me) are comparable to the <Lost Postmodernity> of Silent Cinema.> Emphasis mine. Are you now fully sold on Uncle Bob, or were you just giving the nod to an old comrade, knowing I'd get shirty if he was left out? Either way I wanna hear more, because your theory seems quite sound. As is King's Horse Chess (KHC). It's really got me thinking, and I suspect I shall spend my Sunday composing problems to illustrate the groovy new dynamics. But one thing that should be pointed out is that effectively all endgame theory is shot to @#$%. What happens to classic king-and-pawn endgames now? How much harder will it be to force zugzwang? Do known winning positions become drawn or losing in some situations? I don't know, and I'm not sure if I've got the stamina to find out. Incidentally, your newish job as an art critic isn't going to take you to the Dylan exhibition at the Halcyon is it? 'cause if you're coming over London way... |
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Jun-28-08
 | | Domdaniel: For the record, may I state that the fact that near-identical versions of the <King Horse Chess Manifesto> were posted on Jessica's page as well as my own, was the result of idiocy, not PR strategy or flyposting. Anyone who sends flies through the mail ... could be quite innaresting, really. Since this is for the record, I'd like it overdubbed with horns, please, and some tinkly piano just ... here. |
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Jun-28-08
 | | Domdaniel: <mack> - < Are you now fully sold on Uncle Bob, or were you just giving the nod to an old comrade, knowing I'd get shirty if he was left out? Either way I wanna hear more, because your theory seems quite sound.> Well, to attempt honesty, a novel experience, we're more in old comrade territory here than not. However, I should add that there was a lot of this on the list: my current 'great lyricists' set has Cohen, Dylan and my new squeeze, Costello - full stop. All of the others have turned a good phrase at times, but only at times. P'raps only Cohen is consistently great. On t'other hand, everyone listed deserves recognition, if only to Pollard a FEN. Meanwhile, back at <King Horse Chess Rancho Vicioso> - yep, both ending and opening theory change utterly, and it's quite unclear (to me) which checkmates can be forced and which material balances lead to draws. Here's a minor case from the opening, using non-daft moves: 1.d4 e6
2.e3 b6
3.Bd3 Bb7
4.Ne2!? c5
This is a fairly routine set-up: the English Defence aka Owen's Defence (though the latter usually applies to ...b6 after 1.e4 while the former is ...b6 after 1.d4, without transposing to a Queen's Indian. 4.Ne2!? leaves the g2-pawn hanging, but this is a trendy position in such openings. Baburin played it against me in a Nimzo-Indian in March; I declined the gambit, got myself into space trouble, and lost by move 17. Baburin told me that the main (Nimzo) line is ...Bxg2 followed by Rg1 and ...Bf3. Anyway, the point here is that Black also refuses the gambit.
4 ... c5 attacks the centre, again standard. But there are differences here in KHC:  click for larger viewWhite to play.
Observe that:
- Black's ...c5 opens a spare escape route for his King at c7. If it turns out that moving the king this way is viable, he's made a useful advance. - Can White play 5.0-0, which would be the normal move? Yes he can. Admittedly Black's bishop attacks f3, a square the king can currently move to. But it shouldn't matter - just as an attack on d1 doesn't normally prevent 0-0. Castling short would only be illegal if the king was in check, or f1 or g1 was attacked. This *could* lead to an improbable endgame situation, something like this:  click for larger viewI'm sure I could construct something better, but this conveys the gist. Black looks to be winning with his advanced king (legally adjacent to WK) and c-pawn. White's pawn is in danger, and the threat is 1...Ra1+ winning the rook. As you suggest, the adjacency rule allows kings to hide in ways currently impossible - totally changing rook endings. Inter alia, White can't castle.
1.0-0 is illegal because the black king hits f1.
So I guess black wins - but until we've actually demonstrated mates, we don't know for sure ... |
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Jun-29-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: heh
<OWL>
by Allen Ginsberg...
Very entertaining and informative annotation of your quadraqueen triumph. <Canadian Girls> are insane. All I can tell you for sure is that if they are young and in Montreal they are loose and drink a lot. oops what a giveaway!!
Don't forget women are crazy and are frequently tempted to "gender self-loathing." Something to do with cultural representation perhaps. IE- I just watched the execrable and muddled <Backwoods> cuz it had <Gary Oldman> and <Paddy Considine> in it both of whom I love. Unfortunately, the broad who played <Paddy's> wife was so unrelentlingly awful that I spent the second half of the film distracted by the strong urge to see <Paddy> blow her face off with his shotgun. I read some of the user comments on the <IMDB> page and lo and behold there were dozens of others who had the exact same thought. Are women really so awful? Well, yes, in this particular film they are. sigh.
Ok now about this <hopping king>... Cripe man- what about the hopping king rule in <3-D chess>? Let a computer try to figure THAT one out...
Mrs. Smoot
Feeling fey today |
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| Jun-29-08 | | Trigonometrist: <dom>
Unpredictable behaviour is really frightening..
That's the best part of it...:) |
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| Jun-29-08 | | Trigonometrist: Hey <dom>..
Guess what..
I am a premiere member now!!...
Well atleast for three months...
I took a survey for CG and they gifted a free trial and now I have my own forum.. Do visit it though I may not be there all the time..
Please post your valuable comments since there exists no forum without it's visitors... Cheers!!!.....:) |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Domdaniel: <Trig> Congrats. And a Rodinesque Thinker to boot ... hey, didn't I see you once in the Glyptotek in Copenhagen, Denmark? Sure looked like you.
- "Statue, Trig?" I asked, but got no reply. Marble can be fearfully aloof. |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Domdaniel: <Tower of Chess - La Tour des Echecs> "Well, my pieces are gone
And my king's bereft
But I got a couple of passers left
And I hope to get one promoted
To a Queen, or a Tower,
Because games like that get quoted.
I'll be speaking to you, baby
Long after I'm promoted
Yeah, you hear these strange voices
From people who get quoted.
Some say 'check', some just go 'yesss!'
But all are prisoners in the Tower of Chess." |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Domdaniel: <Ohio> Did you solve the g2 problem? I tried some variations something like yours, though I never hit on the ...Kd6! plan. The fact that moving the white g-pawn creates an escape on g2 is a problem -- though, counter-intuitively, you don't have to worry about squares adjacent to the white king, like d1, f1, etc. So, lessee ... how's this:
1.d3 Kf6
2.Nd2 Kd5
3.f3 Kf4
4.g4 e5
5.Bg2 Qh4#
 click for larger viewYep, that seems to work. 5.a3 or 5.a4 etc also lead to the same mate, as the Kf4 covers g2 - but I don't see a way to shorten it by a move. The black king isn't *needed* on f4, though it helps. But white has to play, in some order, d3, f3, g4, Bg2, Nd2. I think. Like Steinitz said, the King is an attacking piece -- bet he never imagined anything like this, though. I wonder if the *black* king can be mated on f4, like you'd expect a normal king to be ... or does it just bound away from trouble with springer-moves? The strategy of King Horse Chess depends on the answer to this -- whether the king should be used to launch a mating attack in the opening?! |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Domdaniel: <King Horse: weak points> One way of analyzing a chess set-up is to note the weak points, especially in unmoved pawns along the 2nd rank. In standard chess, running horizontally from a2 to h2, this is the number of times each pawn is protected: Standard: a2-h2
1-1-1-4-4-1-1-1
While in King Horse: a2-h2
1-1-2-3-3-0-2-1
Note that big fat zero at f2, normally weak cos only the king guards here, but here it's got nothing at all. Which means, wait for it ...
1.d3 e6
2.Bd2 Bc5
3.Nf3 Bxf2#
Because the king can't capture one square diagonally. And the escape squares, c2, d3, f3 and g2 are blocked. Mate!  click for larger view |
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| Jun-29-08 | | Red October: <mack: Unless I'm very much mistaken it is impossible to mate with rook and king vs rook in KHC.> obviously since only one side has a King ;-D |
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| Jun-29-08 | | mack: Unless I'm very much mistaken it will be impossible to mate with rook and king vs king in KHC. |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Open Defence: well what about such a position
White K on f7 White Rook on g7 and Black K on h8 |
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| Jun-29-08 | | mack: That's illegal! |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Open Defence: why so ? Black is mated in the final position after the King has moved to f7 i.e. Kf7# |
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| Jun-29-08 | | mack: Because you can't check with a king, can you? |
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| Jun-29-08 | | mack: <obviously since only one side has a King ;-D> Gah! Didn't realise someone had caught me out on that before I zapped... |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Open Defence: I thought you can in KHC, but I will let the High Priest clarify |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Open Defence: ok if the rule in KHC is the same as in Chess even then I think this position is checkmate in KHC right ? click for larger view |
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Jun-29-08
 | | OhioChessFan: 3 moves. Well done, dd. |
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Jun-29-08
 | | Domdaniel: <KH checks> As I said early on, Kings can be on adjacent squares (d2, d3) without and illegality. But they can never be a knight-move apart (eg, f2/h1) as this would be mutual check. This seems the most consistent version of the rule. Is there a problem with it, apart from screwing up familiar endgames? KHC has some interesting features in common with an old variant called 'refusal chess' -- your opponent could reject your move at any stage, but had to accept your 2nd offer. The trick was to tempt him with a highly rejectable nasty-looking threat while keeping the real threat hidden, and spring it on the 2nd go. The shared point is that, as in my ...Bxf2#, a king can be checkmated by an adjacent, unsupported piece. If you can play Qxh7+ against a castled king, you reject his ...Kxh7, and it's mate. Hmm. I suppose Refusal King Horse Chess would be just too confusing ... |
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| Jun-30-08 | | Red October: ok but the second position is checkmate in KHC right ? |
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| Jun-30-08 | | mack: Maybe I should have said that it seems impossible to *force* mate with KR v K - in OD's diagram the king can only have from f7 and it's rather nice of black to head straight for the corner. It's a selfmate. |
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| Jun-30-08 | | ravel5184: <Open Defence> The position is not checkmate because Black can play 1 ... Kf7. If the King were on e5 it would be checkmate, I think. |
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| Jun-30-08 | | achieve: <If the King were on e5 it would be checkmate, I think.> correct. |
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