Well, uh, not really. You might approach such a pinnacle via statements like "speed metal is made by retards for cretins" or "orchestral music is so last century" or "rock music is Satan's way of telling you that he's got a foothold in your head" ...

Annie's statement, viz, "I haven't much use for ..." merely expressed a personal preference. Its referent was the speaker, not the music.

Admittedly, the sentiments expressed are sometimes associated with a reprehensible kind of snobbery, but I don't think Annie was doing that. Just describing a preference ...

I also prefer music with words, but I tend to see it as a limitation on my part. I may be effectively tone deaf, but I've seen musical virtuosity - or fluency bordering on genius - a few times.

Once was in a recording studio, watching and listening as a friend composed a record using the studio as an instrument (it was 'Skipper' by Daniel Figgis, and I recommend it ... it *sounds* to most ears as though it was assembled on a state-of-the-art synthesizer, but in fact the core elements, the musical morphemes, are samples of dripping taps and creaking doors and breezes -- it makes beautiful melodies out of found sound).

Anyhow, the mere process of seeing the guy work the studio consoles made me think of Kasparov or Galois. It was the same order of structural facility one finds in chess and maths.

I'm not sure that 'virtuosity' is quite the right word, though. In contemporary music, I associate it with early-1970s 'progressive' rock: the age of long guitar and keyboard solos, with the emphasis on technique. Soon to be blown away by punk: back to basics, three chords and the truth.

Ideologically, I'm with punk. Even though I'm an old hippie in other ways, and I've always lived in the future anyway.

One subject was 'Damn Life', a piece by John Cale. It borrows the notes from Beethoven's 'Ode to Joy' -- supposedly among the most optimistic, spiritually uplifting and *soulful* compositions ever made.

But Cale makes two changes. He adds a vocal track, with words and tone unremittingly negative: "Damn life/ What's it worth?/ ... it's just self pity, damn life ..." and so on. Secondly it warps and slows the music, adds jarring 'wrong' notes. Still recognizably Ludwig Van, but different. The result was brilliantly downbeat: as 'depressing' a piece of music as you'll find - all the stuff they say about Leonard Cohen, but isn't true in his case.

Our argument was along these lines: Beethoven is seen as the ultimate in musical Romanticism. Which includes the idea that the composer's self and spirit somehow emerge in the notes; and that an uplifting joyful theme can be conveyed by a sequence of notes.

Yet here the same notes underpin a masterpiece of misery. How could that be, unless words and lyrics were simply more powerful that instrumental music? If words are present, we take our primary cue from them ...

Well, uh, not really.>

Who knows? I'm always laughing at the wrong times.

I think folks lost the ability to sense irony sometime after the Irony Age. At the dawn of the early Devouring Era.

on Women's Day too.... tsk tsk...>

Women's Day!

Get one for me too, please. But there <is> such a thing; it's called "using smilies". :p

Gary Cooper, internet edition: "Use a smiley when you call me that!" (actually, "If you wanna call me that, use a smiley.")

In your case, the deterioration of your irony detection abilities (if there was any to be detected) could be somewhat my fault - you may have gotten used to my constant use of such, err, explicit images. ;)

<I also prefer music with words, but I tend to see it as a limitation on my part.>

Me too, of course. :) Uh, my own, I mean.

<I'm not sure that 'virtuosity' is quite the right word, though. In contemporary music, I associate it with early-1970s 'progressive' rock: the age of long guitar and keyboard solos, with the emphasis on technique. Soon to be blown away by punk: back to basics, three chords and the truth.>

That's what *I* was talking about; what you described, also involves an element of resourcefulness.

<For what it's worth, I think I was wrong. I underestimated the effect of slowing the tempo and adding discordant bits. *These* convey the mood as much as words do (though calling a piece 'Damn Life' is a strong hint at least ...)>

For what it's worth, I think you are right in thinking you were wrong. That's the nice thing about changing one's mind: it doubles the chances of having been right (or at least of having people agree with you) at some point. :p

Tempo, particularly - fast music is just interpreted as upbeat, at a very basic level. Makes sense too: fast = energetic, and energy is directly associated with happiness, versus slowness, implying lethargy. But that's still, uh, "insufficient data" for me. I'd want to know what the composer is happy about; did he just save somebody's life, did that bloody faucet in the kitchen stop dripping loudly, or did he finally succeed in running over the neighbor's annoying little dog? How can I know whether I'd share, care about, or approve of, this happiness, if all they convey is "I'm happy"?

Classical music doesn't *communicate* as such; the composer has his own motives for composing something, but *what*, is apparently none of our business. We only get the end result, to be used strictly as an artificial mood modifier for ourselves.

And that's what I'm actually wary about. I don't like having my mind - brain, feelings - messed with, on any irrational, artificial basis. I stay the hecque away from drugs, alcohol - and I'm careful with music, very careful, because it has just as potent "mind altering" powers. Direct physical damage related to "substance abuse" may not be as permanent and irreversible; but there is little difference in the potential severity of consequences of actions committed while "DUI".

Hey, but to clarify, I'm not trying to tell others what to do, nor do I think anything an informed adult chooses to do to themselves is "wrong". Just speaking for myself, as usual.

Combinations and chemistry are your only men.

*Of course* music is dangerous -- would the kids like it if it wasn't?

Giving 'em a whole day now, eh? Is that per annum or per diem?

Very good point!

<"All right, you tin-eared suckfish ... we're gonna listen to Bee-@#$%en-toven's 9th until the sun comes up ...">

<would the kids like it if it wasn't?>

-again - soooo true. The thrill-seeking little buggers... as are all we chess players too, of course. Yanno, it's a wonder this weirdly self-destructive species of ours ever survived to run the planet over. :s

<When do we get a Geek Week?>