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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <jessicafischerqueen: I don't think it makes sense to say Bobby was "losing his mind"- in normal English usage we usually reserve that colloquial, and decidedly non-diagnostic phrase for someone who has little or no idea who, where, or what he is. Bobby was not delusional in that he saw Pink Elephants. He was certainly clinically paranoid and sported a wide variety of bizarre and hateful beliefs. His saddest paranoid belief, possibly, was his conviction that doctors couldn't, or wouldn't, do anything to help his kidney disease. He might ahve lived years more if he'd accepted proper medcal treatment.> Then perhaps I used the wrong phrase. What I meant was, did his mind become clinically or non-clinically abnormal? Brady mentions the logic he uses, something along the lines of: Person A is a very bad guy.
Person A is from Iceland.
Therefore, people from Iceland must be very bad. (Not the exact one Brady used in <Endgame>). From what I know of him, he was too quick to judge and had a hard time trying to (patiently) understand other people before forming an opinion of them. He had the "Of course I am right, of course you are wrong, and I am not going to change my mind about that" mentality. Anyway, the kind of stuff he was saying in his second half of his life is just bizzare. He couldn't come to his senses. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <Bobby was never a morning person, & that Jewish Sabbath time was just fine\w/ him.> No, it wasn't fine with him. He even dropped out of a high-level tournament because it conflicted with his Sabbath time. (By the way, I already returned the Brady book some time ago, so don't ask me for specific details). |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <lamont: He even proffered the ultimate gesture of trust & friendship by deigning to play some chessgames (!!) w/ Susan.> But the Polgars eventually decided to cut him out of his life. They couldn't stand him anymore. They were even starting to get irritated with his anti-semitic talks during his stay with them. And, also, a psychiatrist (also in the book <Endgame>) said that he is NOT clinically <paranoid> or <schezophrenic>. <Bobby went to Iceland, as Kissinger suggested he do, as the freedom-loving American to kick Russian Commie ass. He went in the role of Patriot.> You mean, the patriot, the chess player, and his sense of teaching the Russians a lesson for what he claimed as taking his title away from him in the past (before 1972) through "cheating." Fischer wanted more prize money from the match. Money was his biggest concern, not the "patriotic" role. <But when the U.S.A. declared him an unpatriotic felon for moving chess pieces in Spassky II -- the same very deep sense of betrayal & hurt overcame him: he was essentially told by the U.S.A. he cd/ never return to his country : he was persona non grata.> The president at the time of the 1972 match said he would invite Bobby to the White House after the match, win or lose, but that offer never came, so Fischer was naturally mad about it. The 1992 match was more politics and law---Bobby can't play the match in that country (he was breaking the law), but he did it anyway. Also, he was NEVER told he couldn't return to his country. He could have---just that he would risk getting arrested, fined, and jailed. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: Note that all of the information I've shared above is from my memory of the book <Endgame> by Frank Brady. I don't claim to know everything about Fischer, nor do I claim that I'm on expert on him. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Travis Bickle: <lamont> When Fischer stayed with The Polgars in their guesthouse, Bobby entertained the idea of playing Judit a Fischer Random match. Judit has said that she never got to play any chess with Bobby as did Susan & Sophia, (because he said about the proposed match with Judit), "if we say we never played than we can not play a game". Plus when Bobby had second thoughts about playing Fischer random with Judit one of the factors was as Bobby mentioned to insiders that she's a Jew etc. Susan Polgar has said that Bobby always treated her well and had a real fondness for him, and she also said she analyzed games with Fischer, and it was one of the greatest experiences of her chess career! Where as the other sisters were not too keen on Bobby. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Travis Bickle: At 1:40 of this video Judit talks about never playing Bobby because of negotiations of a Fischer Random match between Bobby & her. http://youtu.be/QSRlyEMZwGo |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <Plus when Bobby had second thoughts about playing Fischer random with Judit one of the factors was as Bobby mentioned to insiders that she's a Jew etc.> Note that Fischer usually reffered in his second half of his life that anyone he didn't like (or hated) was a "Jew." Perhaps the word "like" isn't the best choice of word here, but you get my point. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Travis Bickle: Sophia Polgar has said the sisters were hurt when Fischer stated that The Holocaust never happened, and their grandmother was a prisoner in one of the camps and had a nazi mark on her arm. Here's a statement by Sofi Polgar on Fischer. What was edited out at the end was Sofi saying, "it's not up to me but I think he could use some professional help". http://youtu.be/IpHyqg-gM-s |
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Jan-25-12
 | | harrylime: Won again tonight...I'm feeling good. 8 striaght wins for me in this league. Just got back too so I'm on a high.. This is not bravado . |
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Jan-25-12
 | | harrylime: You are cool .. But this site is as cliquey as it gets ! |
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Jan-25-12 | | notyetagm: Game Collection: ARONIAN CHAIN: CHAIN OF PIECES CREATED BY DECOY A Giri vs Aronian, 2012 41 ... Nf3-e1!! 42 Rh1xNe1 creates pinning chain along e-file |
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Jan-25-12 | | technical draw: <notyetagm> Sorry, but everytime I see A Giri, I think it says a girl. I was looking forward to a girl vs Aronian. There must be some medication I could take. |
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Jan-25-12 | | notyetagm: Radjabov vs Van Wely, 2012 http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/chessne... <40.Qf3?
 click for larger viewA blunder accompanied with a draw offer. Van Wely had only 50 seconds left and agreed to it. White has a couple of moves that should equalise. [<<<40.Qf3 Ra2 41.Rg2 Rxg2 42.Qxg2 Rxd3 43.Rxd3 Qe1+ 44.Qg1 Qe4+  click for larger view45.Qg2 Qxd3;
 click for larger view>>> 40.Bf1 Rd2 41.Rh3 Rb4; 40.Rb2]> |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <jessicafischerqueen: ...Speaking for Bobby, there's no evidence Jews did anything bad to him, quite the contrary, so I don't think he was justified to hold Anti-Semitic beliefs.> Absolutely. Some of Fischer's friends were Jews. He said to one of his good friends something along the lines of, "You are a good person. Therefore, you can't be a Jew." <Nor do I think his anti-American sttements can be justified. America rolled out the red carpet for him for a long, long time. I do think the US government was needlessly, and cruelly, vindictive in voiding Bobby's passport whilst he was in Japan.> I don't know if the US government was "needlessly, and cruelly, vindictive in voiding Bobby's passport" though. He did say in a public radio broadcast, after the 9/11 attack, that "This is wonderful news...it's time the US got their heads kicked in." Besides, he didn't pay his taxes since 1976. That's a lot of money that the US Government lost! He even spit on a government request (or order, I can't remember) in his 1992 match against Spassky. Brady notes that that's the equivalent of burning the USA falg. Please don't mistake this as me attacking him. But, seeing things from the US Government's point of view, it's understandable how and why they decided to treat Fischer the way they did. By the way, if there's anything incorrect or simply wrong from I said in my posts above, please correct it. You are more knowledgeable about Fischer than me. And I want to understand more about him than simply what is depicted in <Endgame>, the only book I've read about Fischer. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <jessicafischerqueen> I want to ask you some more questions about Fischer, if you don't mind: <And also his later anti-semite and anti-america beliefs. Do you believe that they were justified and understandable based on what you know of him, or was he really losing his mind by then?> Let me rephrase the question: do you believe that, given how Fischer was treated by others, and his own personality and character, as well as his life experiences, that his anti-semetic beliefs were <understandable>? I am asking from a compassionate point of view. ---
In <Endgame> by Frank Brady, he notes that Fischer was influenced by the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, particularly his books <The Anti-Christ> and <Thus Spoke Zarathustra>, both of which he has read. In <Thus Spoke Zarathustra>, Nietzsche talks about the concept of Ubermensch ("superman"). The concept of Ubermensch is described as follows in the book: <I teach you the Ubermensch. Man is something that shall be overcome.... What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock or a painful embarrassment. And just the same shall man be to the Ubermensch: a laughing-stock or a painful embarassment. .... Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Ubermensch.> --- Translated by Clancy Martin. Brady tells us little about how Fischer was influenced by Nietzche. But perhaps you know: did Fischer think that he was an Ubermensch? And, do you believe that, given what he has accomplished and went through, that he deserves to be classified as an Ubermensch? ---
Now, Nietzsche's <The Anti-Christ>. Brady notes that Fischer drifted away from the Church. In the book, Nietzsche notes that, <In Christianity all the instincts of the subjugated and oppressed come to the force: it is the lowest classes who seek their salvation in this religion.> Also, <We must not deck out and adorn Christianity: it has waged a deadly war upon this higher type of man, it has set a ban upon all the fundamental instincts of this type, and has distilled evil and the devil himself out of these instincts: the strong man as the typical pariah, the villain. Christianity has sided with everything weak, low, and botched; it has made an ideal out of ANTAGONISM towards all the self-preservative instincts of strong life: it has corrupted even the reason of the strongest intellects, by teaching that the highest values of intellectuality are sinful, misleading and full of temptations.> --- Translated by Anthony M. Ludovici To what extent do you think that <The Anti-Christ> caused him to move away from the Church? Fischer later became as a voracious reader. Do you think he agreed with Niezsche's idea of intellectuality and superiority discussed above and acted on it? Also, <The Anti-Christ> states, <Buddhism is the only really POSITIVE religion to be found in history, even in its epistemology (which is strict phenomenalism)--it no longer speaks of the "struggle with SIN" but fully recognizing the true nature of reality it speaks of the "struggle with PAIN."> Why did Fischer decide against Buddhism? What beliefs and values of Fischer made him turn it away? |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <And, do you believe that, given what he has accomplished and went through, that he deserves to be classified as an Ubermensch?> Not "classified"---substitute "thought of." |
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Jan-25-12
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Knight13> Well Bobby didn't kill anyone or blow anything up, so you could say all his ideas and actions were "understandable" to some extent, although such a statement- and sentiment- is so general it's close to meaningless.
To tell you the truth I'm skeptical about how voraciously Bobby read, even at the end in Iceland. In common usage, when we say someone "read voraciously" we usually mean someone who reads a wide variety of different kinds of books. Bobby never did that. He read selectively, monomaniacally even, Tarzan comics, chess books, and at the end he was only interested in idiotic, frequently racist conspiracy books. I doubt he understood Nietszche, or read him carefully. I imagine that he cherry picked through all his reading, mainly looking for anything that might lend credence to what he already believed in the first place. I should also stress that I'm as far from an expert on Bobby Fischer as anyone you could name around here- <TheFocus>, <lamont>, and <Travis Bickle> are your best bets for in-depth speculations on what Bobby thought, what he did, and why. I recommend directing your questions to <lamont> in particular, because he's better versed than me in philosophy, psychology, literature, religious studies, and history. At any rate, please don't ask me for any more opinions on Bobby along these lines, as I'm not really interested in that aspect of him, at least not at the moment. My interest in Bobby ends, really, in 1975. |
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Jan-25-12 | | Knight13: <In common usage, when we say someone "read voraciously" we usually mean someone who reads a wide variety of different kinds of books.> I meant the dictionary.com version: "exceedingly eager or avid," and, I think it is also what Brady meant. When I used the word "justified" earlier, I meant if his beliefs (anti-semitism, etc.) were just or right in anyway, which is the dictionary version. But, I understand. Thank you for your answers. I appreciate them. :-) |
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Jan-26-12 | | Thanh Phan: Huntington acquires trove of Lincoln, Civil War telegrams, codes ~ http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen... A first public glimpse of some of the ledgers and code books is planned for the fall, when the Huntington will mount two exhibitions on the Civil War, "A Strange and Fearful Interest: Death, Mourning and Memory in the American Civil War" (Oct. 13-Jan. 14, 2013) and "A Just Cause: Voices of the Civil War Era" (Sept. 22-Jan. 14, 2013). |
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Jan-26-12 | | lamont: ...
Knight 13 ~
Of course the 11 a.m. time Mrs. P/sky wanted Bobby to play was NOT fine w/ him
--the context of what follows shd/ have made you realize that I made a typo mistake...After saying Bobby was NOT a morning person, c'mon man... You are really being absurd to say Bobby was never TOLD he cdnt return to the U.S.
He and the world (except you, apparantly) KNEW
he wd/ get tei (10) years for breaking a govt/ protocol about playing Spassky 1992 in Yugoslavia + millions of dollars in fines for not paying his income taxes + confiscation of the millions he won
beating Spassky.
He faced heavy jail time & complete financial ruin...that's CERTAIN.
Where on earth do you get the idea it was a ..."risk' ??!!
(boggle/boggle)
Dont you think his (Jewish, yes) lawyer warned him
of the dire consequences of Spassky II ??
The long arm of "W" reached out & grabbed him in Japan
on a PHONEY charge of his having an expired passport.
He actually had it properly renewed at a U.S. embassy (!!)
--now THAT...was a risky move.
Get w/ the program.
Bobby "mad" not being invited to the White House in '72 ??
--You dont know Bobby.
He was bullet-proof to ever feel "mad".
He spit on the U.S. Gummint legal order to desist playing Spassky
...& he did it at a news conference... & on camera !!
You dont know from Bobby, bubbala. |
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Jan-26-12 | | Travis Bickle: <Knight13> After Bobby Fischer won the World Chess Championship in 1972 he became affiliated with The Worldwide Church of God giving a significant amount of his prize winnings from his historic match vs Spassky to the church. Later on this church became engulfed in a sex scandal and Fischer left the church for good. After that scandal basically Fischer went from hating The Russians, to atheism and then to a paranoid delusion that The Jews were going to control the world. |
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Jan-26-12 | | Travis Bickle: <lamont: Bobby "mad" not being invited to the White House in '72 ?? --You dont know Bobby. He was bullet-proof to ever feel "mad".> Not true at all! Bobby Fischer once remarked after he won the Title from The Russians, that he never was invited to The White House! Bobby complained the U.S. instead invited a Russian gymnast (I think Olga Korbut). Fischer was hurt by that. Boris Spassy when being interviewed by Susan Polgar a few years ago said, Bobby at times could be vicious, but on the inside he was like fine crystal, very sensitive. |
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Jan-26-12 | | lamont: ...
Travis !! ~
Bobby was so far gone w/ his constant anti-Semitic rants he finally managed to alienate the Polgars, & eventually just about everyone in Iceland -- as that HBO doc/ explicitly shows us... He was seriously ill & incurable.
This was a walking dead man.
"His games...His games are his monument.
He was the best player that ever lived."
Shelby Lyman, HBO doc/
He blew off every friend he ever had.
He blew off literally life-long friends like:
Dr. Anthony Saidy
(because he told Bobby...that if he doesnt play in Iceland,
eventually no one will ask him to play)
Larry Evans
(who helped him write MY 60, was supposed to be his second in Iceland, but Bobby told him that he wd/ not allow him to bring Mrs. Evans to Iceland w/ him !!) Yes... What you report about Bobby & the Polgar sisters is accurate. But also...
Susan revealed (on her blog, I believe) that she did play some FischerRandom games w/ Bobby. Then, she was asked the obvious question --how she fared ?? She broke the protocol of being a confidante/friend by replying:
"I was not disappointed."
To tacitly reveal that she had won
at some time -- was a hu betrayal of the loyalty Bobby expected, for those who wanted to keep his friendship. His gross instability annihilated
any possibility of any stable relationship.
At the end, w/ a curable/containable kidney condition, he finally alienated the last possible person --himself--
by denying his body any kind of medical assistance
-- the endgame was choosing a painful suicide.
...Not concession, but self-mate.
*****
[Damn !!
[You Rambo w/ a cross-bow ??!!
[You contain multitudes, man. |
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Jan-26-12 | | lamont: ...
Travis ~
Yes, he spoke about how the White House didnt honor a promise to
invite him, win or lose.
But, Travis, I believe it was more of a wry, dismissive remark
than a volatile one made in anger...that the context was one of
small potatoes, azzit were.
Playing chess, after a fashion,
w/ Premier el Comandante Fidel Castro
--now that was a much bigger deal !!
Getting royally screwed by Jacqueline
Piatigorsky Rotschild, Sammy-ortho-Reschevsky & ambient Jews...
that made him palpably/literally MAD. |
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Jan-26-12 | | lamont: ...
Jessicakes,
My Dearesr Queeney-Type Person ~
We both know & agree that
Bobby Fischer the Eleventh
--as Kasparov anointed him--
started separating from Caissa in 1972
& divorced her in 1975.
"His games...His games
are his monument."
Yr/ site is an enduring Memorial
to the gifts of genius bequeathed us.
It is Robert James Fischer, chess-player,
that will outlive the centuries.
The biographical sensationalism will
be as forgotten as the sensational fact
that in the 19th Century
Chopin was anti-Semetic.
Q.E.D., azzit were.
I, too, am done
answering to the more lurid questions
belonging to his biography & not his creativity.
Those questions, properly, shd/ be addressed to
his biographer, c/o the publisher.
& The Focus shd/ not be pestered before or after
his biography eventuates...He's busy !!
To do otherwise, for me at least,
wd/ be to sully this
magnificent shrine yr/ second-to-none
recondite mind has built to his Gift.
Blessings & benedictions for that !!
***
Now, do I understand that you cd/ use
some bux to get some videos made more quickly ??
IF...
you cd/ tell me how I can snare
one-thousand screaming eagles for you
--just lemme know way, Queeney, & you got 'em !!
Yr/ long-time secret admirer,
<lamont> |
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