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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 211 OF 644 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-16-13 | | hms123: <jess> TV never lies. I am not sure about serial boxes. I think they have to be lined up correctly to be interpreted. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Annie> the weekend is better for me, I'd like to be able to chat when I'm not tired. Still at work for a week and a half. We'll have to match up our time zones. Luckily, thanks to the internets, we can do that easily I hope. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | Annie K.: <Jess> no problem - you say when. :) This should help with the timezones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclo... |
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Jan-16-13
 | | chancho: <Jess> You probably have seen this already. It's pictures of some of the teams that played in the 1939 Buenos Aires Olympiad: http://www.ara.org.ar/chs/ajedrez/p... It's in spanish. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | Annie K.: Hold on, even better: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclo... - any other locations you want to add to the list? Then you can bookmark the page. :) |
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Jan-16-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <jessicafischerqueen> Regarding Petrovs' dates: If September 27, 1907-August 26, 1943 are correct, he would have died at age 35, a month before his 36th birthday. Same way that Fischer lived from 1943-2008, but was 64 when he died. Gaige gives <September 27, 1907 to March 15, 1945>. He definitely appears to be wrong about the death date, but such dates during WWII can be very hard to verify. Remember that his book was published in 1984 and that much research has obviously been done since. He quotes the 1937 volumes of the British Chess Magazine and Wiener Schachzeitung among his sources, so they might well where the birth date came from. But I can't explain why the biography indicates 1938. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Lotsapoppa> yep I've got those on my hard drive too. I think you may have been the one to give me the link last year, in fact. Thanks twice over, if so! |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Thanks <Annie> then we can has TOP SECRET gossip. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Aha thanks <Phony Benoni>, that's very helpful indeed. This is indeed a vexing question, given that it's difficult to believe that both <Fride> and his own wife give 1908 as an incorrect birth date. I'm going to go with the family friends (Fride's father) and relations (wife Galina and grandson Vladimir) on this for the time being, unless anyone has strenuous objections. I will attempt to contact <Vladimir Dedkov> via the Latvian magazine he writes and edits for. The death date is from a death certificate the KGB released to Galina Mathis-Petrovs in 1989. This certificate is in the same papers that both biographies spring from- currently Mr. Dedkov is in possession of these papers. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Ah to clarify- it's actually two biographies, one by A. Fride and the other by Petrovs' wife Galina Mathis-Petrov, but they both use the same papers as a common source. These papers are Galina's personal documents and also documents collected by Fride's father Janus, who was a colleague and friend of Petrovs. As I said, Vladimir Dedkov has the documents at present. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Andrei Sakharov's> website also lists 1908 as the birth year, but he's summarizing Galina's biography. http://www.sakharov-center.ru/asfcd... Still, he was a close friend and collaborator with Galina, so it's odd both of them wouldn't notice the date was wrong, if it were? |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Phony Benoni> Still, it's extremely odd that the journals of 1937 gave the 1907 date if it weren't accurate. Petrovs actually wrote for the British Chess journal, so I assume he also read it and would have corrected such a detail. He also read German, and Latvian, and Russian.
This is driving me crazy.
I will also try to contact <Sergey Voronkov> at the <Chesspro> website. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <jessicafischerqueen> I'm getting dizzy from so many cross postings. Let me give you the entire entry from Gaige's <Chess Personalia>, with a reminder that this is information available in 1984: <Petrovs, Vladimirs
var. Petrov, Vladimir Mikhailovich
*27-09-1907 Riga, Latvia, URS
+15-03-1945 Smolensk, URS
Elo Historical Rating: 2520
BCM, 1937, p. 558
OC, p. 249
Sachs Latvija, p. 168-169
WS, 1937, p. 198
Z2, p. 104>
Just remembered that the <Wiener Schachzeitung> from 1937 (and other years) is online, and have tracked down one of Gaige's sources: http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/a... It gives the September 27, 1907 birthdate. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Thanks so much <Phony Benoni>. It is indeed odd. I didn't doubt that Gaige had his own sourcing correct, and if both journals gave the wrong birth year it's difficult to believe Petrovs himself wouldn't have corrected them. However, it's even more difficult (for me) to believe that his own wife and grandson got Petrovs' birth year wrong. So I will go with 1908 as the birth year unless there is a strenuous objection- at least for now. As I said, I will attempt to contact both <Vladimir Dedkov> and <Sergey Voronkov> to ask them about this mystery. |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Russian and Latvian articles from websites are giving 1908 as Petrovs' birth year. Here is the bibliographical information on the three books I have that give 1908 as the birth year. Andris Fride, <Vladimirs Petrovs: A Chessplayer's Story - From Greatness to the Gulags>, Caissa Editions, 2004. Sergey Grodzensky - <The Lubyanka Gambit>, Olympia Press, Moscow 2004 (Available in Russian only) Galina Petrov-Mathis <Star Extinguished Before its Time> Riga, 2008
(Available in Russian only) |
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Jan-16-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Can't be an "Old" vs. "New" Russian calendar issue either, since the same month and day is given by all sources, just the year is different. The date of the genesis of the "new" 1908 year appears to be the publication of the <Fride> and <Grodzensky> books. Since that year, 1908 appears to have been adopted as Petrovs' birth year by Russian and Latvian web-sourced articles, and also by a Latvian magazine that has published two recent articles on Petrovs. I have both of the articles here on my computer. |
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Jan-17-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Dale A. Brandreth> edited the <Fride> biography. In two weeks I will be in Canada, and I'll send him a letter at his <Caissa Editions> PO box. I can ask him to help us clear up the date mystery. |
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| Jan-17-13 | | TheFocus: <jess> Dale Brandreth has an e-mail address also. It is <dbrandreth3@comcast.net>. I usually get a quick reply from him. |
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Jan-17-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <TheFocus> you really are indispensable. I will draft a concise email and send it off at work today. Thank you! |
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Jan-17-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Ohio> I'll post here so as not to interrupt the contest. Did you know you are in the top ten kibbutz list now? <10. OhioChessFan (20,807)> |
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Jan-17-13
 | | chancho: <Jess> Found a link at Edward Winter's site regarding Petrov.
It's in Russian, but maybe you can make use of it:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... |
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Jan-17-13
 | | chancho: Seeing as you've proven to be very thorough, I would not be surprised if you already have it. :-) |
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Jan-17-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Lotsapoppa> Thanks for that link. I have that "translated" already on my hard drive. That is the Latvian magazine that <Vladimir Dedkov> has done some work for. |
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Jan-17-13
 | | chancho: I found Brandeth's e-mail address, but noticed that <The Focus> already posted it. Here's the link:
http://www.chessbookstore.com/ |
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Jan-17-13
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Thanks <chancho>, it's better to have too much than too little information that's for sure. I will email him today. Concise email, just the facts and ask him for his opinion, and if he can help us with any hard information. |
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