Is that right?>

It is complicated - everything you wrote is right, but there is a little nuance you left out: The ball carrier can stop the clock by going out of bounds if he is making forward progress. But if his forward progress is stopped in bounds, then the officials will let the clock continue to run.

Also, the clock is stopped after a score, which will frequently be accompanied by a commercial time out. After the score, the clock is not restarted until the subsequent free kick by the scoring team is put in play by a player (of either side).

Also, it used to be that the clock rules were a bit different inside 2 minutes left to play in the half. IIRC, if the clock is stopped outside of two minutes the officials start the clock when the ball is marked ready for play, but inside of two minutes they start the clock only at the snap.

Many years ago (maybe 10 or 15) it was different. My memory on this subject is a bit unclear (because I stopped obsessing about the annual rules change announcements), but I think back then if the clock was stopped then it was not started until the snap, even outside of two minutes. But the league got more and more passing-oriented, and the percentage of running plays dropped (this was also due to rules changes to protect the QB and more recently, defenseless recievers).

This resulted in something I will call "game length creep", wherein the length of games got longer and longer. The NFL likes games to last about 3 hours, and the extension out to averaging 3 hr 15 minutes (or so) meant that early games were still going well into the 1st quarter of late games, and late games were pushing out network programming.

So I think that is when they started running the clock when the ball is marked ready for play. The number of plays per game went down, and purists didn't like it. Commentators claimed the NFL would lose its appeal with fewer plays, but I think it turned out well. (Even though I didn't like it at the time).

I grew up watching football, and I remember the Redskins with their "Hogs" in the 1980s, a big bruising physical offensive line. They would run and run and wear out defenses, so that in the fourth quarter the defense couldn't stop the run or rush the pass.

Nowadays with fewer plays, the quality of defensive play in the 4th quarter is remarkably better than it was before the rules changes.

Merry Christmas to you <ketchuplover> and I hope you get many hamburgers to go with yourself. Tasty!

I will spend Christmas in Korea again, where they don't have you. Well they do, but in Korea they put squid paste into the ketchup.

<thegoodrulebook> That wasn't remotely enough information, but thank you!

<thegoodrulebook> That wasn't remotely enough information, but thank you!>

Of course! No verbose exposition on NFL time stoppage rules is satisfactory, let alone complete, without mentioning that the league does not stop the clock on the occasion of the offensive team earning a first down.

This is crucial information, because one of the first things I noticed as an NFL fan, upon venturing to view a collegiate football game one Saturday long ago, is that the NCAA does indeed stop the clock upon the event of the offense earning a first down.

I speculate that the purpose of this is to permit the officiating crew to move the first down marker (colloquially known as "the chains") without a chaotic hurried effort. Presumably to avoid any mistakes.

I suppose the NFL considers the possibility of mistakes to be less of an impact than the competitive advantage conferred to the team possessing the ball, if they are trailing in the score.

<Vince Lombardy>

I remember a movie where you made a briefer exposition- you held up the ball and said to your men

WHAT IS THIS?

It was a TV movie about the Green Bay Packers first superbowl win, starring Ernest Borgnine as you, if I'm not mistaken.

Seriously I could listen to detailed sports stories all day long. I had no idea that there was such a thing as the clock stopping at the end of the first down. Sounds well out of order. I didn't get where I am today by watching games where the clock stops after the first down.

We'd never do that in the CFL. I don't think...

My Mom is a CFL and NHL fan. In her world, the NCAA is a lobby group for black civil rights.

<Ohio> I never heard about that before- how do the refs decide when running out of bounds doesn't stop the clock, and when it does stop the clock?

<anarchy in the UK>

I've got that wrong as well- Vince Lombardi held the football up and said "THIS- IS A FOOTBALL."

I think. I was looking for the scene from the movie on youtube, but I couldn't find it. But I did find this- excellent sports history:

I can't search movies on dialup but I think if you plug in Max McGee along with Vince Lombardi, you should find it.

In an effort to have games end in under 4 hours, no, running out of bounds doesn't alway stop the clock.>

Maybe in the college game, but in the NFL if you are making forward progress going out of bounds the clock is <always> stopped. If your forward progress is stopped then the clock runs. See my previous post on this very topic.

<OhioChessFan: <But when the offensive team is leading, this also makes it more difficult for them to run out the clock, as it punishes their successful conversion effort.>

No, since the play clock is the determinant issue. Once the chains are set, the play clock winds too. They can just wait out that time,>

Thanks for that information, which I did not know, since watching college football is boring to me.

Even though it doesn't affect the time that can be run off, it still helps the sides organize and get coaching from the sidelines. Thanks, but no thanks.

<jessicafischerqueen:

<Vince Lombardy>

I remember a movie where you made a briefer exposition- you held up the ball and said to your men

WHAT IS THIS? >

That reminds me of something I once saw on a pregame show. A former NFL coach turned commentator was relating a story to the audience about a time he told his players "The BALL is more important than YOU."

<My Mom is a CFL and NHL fan. In her world, the NCAA is a lobby group for black civil rights. >

<Ohio> I never heard about that before- how do the refs decide when running out of bounds doesn't stop the clock, and when it does stop the clock?>

We need to differentiate between college and the NFL. From OCF's post about the game clock & first downs, he knows the college rules better than I do. So I won't answer for college.

But also from reading his other posts, I can tell he doesn't know the NFL rules as well as I do.

What I posted earlier applies to the NFL. I added a clarification in parenthesis because I am a nerd:

< thegoodanarchist: <jessicafischerqueen:

Oh I've got that wrong haven't I.

In American football they keep the clock running after a running play or completed pass when the player is tackled without going out of bounds?

And they stop the clock if if a player or the ball goes out of bounds, somebody scores, or a coach uses a time out?

Is that right?>

It is complicated - everything you wrote is right, but there is a little nuance you left out: The ball carrier can <<<(AT ANY TIME)>>> stop the clock by going out of bounds if he is making forward progress. But if his forward progress is stopped in bounds, then the officials will let the clock continue to run.>

I cannot speak for college, but I know this is how the NFL does it. I know because I spend more time watching NFL football than just about anything else, and I make intense effort to understand <everything> about the game.

For example, my first post on the subject contained the following:

< thegoodanarchist: ... if the clock is stopped outside of two minutes the officials start the clock when the ball is marked ready for play, but inside of two minutes they start the clock only at the snap. ...>

Unfortunately I forgot to mention that this only applies to the <first> half in the NFL.

In the second half, the clock is started at the snap inside of 5 minutes to play, not 2.

The embarrassing part is that I knew this but forgot to write it. There are no bad students, only bad teachers, and I deeply apologize for this grievous omission.

Also, imagine my chagrin upon learning that the NFL rule book (specifically, OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 16) implies a difference between "marking the ball ready for play", which is done by the referee, and an official "spot(ting) the ball at the inbounds spot" after a runner stops the clock by going out of bounds.

However, I couldn't find anything explicitly stating that this second event is not considered "marking the ball ready for play".

And one more thing. From section 3, article 2 part a, (again from OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 16) "Whenever a runner goes out of bounds on a play from scrimmage, the game clock is started when an official spots the ball at the inbounds spot..." I quote directly from the NFL rule book because I feel obligated to provide proof after stating that OCF was wrong.

"The clock" is too vague. We are actually discussing the game clock, which is 60 minutes for regulation. The other clock is, of course, the play clock. Phew, now we have that established.

There are many ways to stop the game clock (hereafter referred to simply as "the clock". If you like, you can think of it as <THE> clock, since time is the master of all.)

The clock is stopped after a change of possession or free kick (which doesn't necessarily include a change of possession if the kicking team recovers it legally).

The clock is stopped whenever the ball is out of bounds. This is tricky because the ball can be out of bounds literally, but not officially. A topic which I flogged repeatedly with my discussion of runners going out of bounds while making forward progress versus when forward progress is stopped. This indicates that the stopping of forward progress ends the play immediately, from a game timing standpoint.

A new one, heretofore unmentioned, is that the clock is stopped at the end of a down during which a penalty occurs.

This permits the referee to shame the offending player in front of 80,000 fans and millions viewing on television.

In fact, the offending player is so ignominious he isn't even mentioned by name. He is reduced to the status of a number, as if he were an electric bill or street address. Inevitably the program director cuts to the camera that best shows the emotions of the shamed miscreant.

If the injury time out occurs before the 2 minute warning then the clock is stopped, and restarted once the player is off the field, as if the injury timeout had not happened.

"Matriculate those rules down the field!"

The clock start/stop in football is very, very, very, very confusing. To say the least.

Example, Section 3, article 1 of the PDF on kick-offs, the clock does <NOT START> if the kick is out of end-zone, receiving team signals fair catch, or the receiver catches the ball in the end zone but does not leave the end zone.

You can catch the ball (in the end zone), dance a jig, back flip, forward flip, do the Charleston and the clock will not start.

As far as injury time-out, see Section 5, article 4.

Hey that Obamayang guy is new to me .. but having watched your yt link he looks pretty special..

Villa look doomed this season Jess .. can't really see them escaping the drop .. Just a template of how not to run a great and big club ... (sad emoticon )

Blighty v Spain was a reality check for Hodgson ... Spain out classed us...

Spurs have just pumped West ham 4-1 I think and geeez are looking good now ... Pochettino is looking good too ... he did it at Southampton ... and now he's doing it at Spurs.. Hope he gets time and patience there ...

Mourhino made a mistake regarding the Eva Carneiro thing and that's affected the dressing room ... I bet he regrets it too.

The clock start/stop in football is very, very, very, very confusing. To say the least.>

Well, conceptually it is not so bad once you realize that the point is for the clock to start when the ball is put into play.

All the different examples of the ball NOT being put into play are enumerated in the rule you cited. But if you think in terms of how the ball is put into play, then seemingly random events start to become intuitive.

For example, why can the receiver do stuff while having the ball in the end zone? Because if he takes a knee before leaving the end zone, it is a touch back.

As long as he doesn't come out of the end zone, the touch back option is still open to him.

Also, if the ball goes out of bounds before reaching the end zone, this is a penalty. The clock is stopped on a penalty so the officials can enforce it and publicly shame the perpetrator. So just knowing that out of bound = penalty and penalty = stoppage helps.

If the ball is kicked out of the end zone, it is not put into play. If the receiver makes a fair catch, the ball is not put into play. The common theme is the ball is not put into play.

Another rule that seems to be confusing is that "the ground cannot cause a fumble". Madden used to complain about this. But think about it.

If the runner is contacted by the defense and falls, he is down by contact if his knee hits the ground, if the ball hits the ground, or if just about any part of him besides his empty hand and feet hit the ground.

So, runner contacted leads to hitting the ground by part of his body or hitting the ground with the ball in his possession, either of which equals "down by contact" at that instant.

So if hitting the ground then causes the ball to come loose, it doesn't matter because the play is over as soon as the ball contacted the ground, and the loose ball occurred after that event.