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| May-11-08 | | hms123: <kutztown46> It looks like you have plenty of help, but if you need an extra forum between now and early June (I am off to Maine for a few weeks vacation), please let me know--thanks--howard |
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| May-11-08 | | hms123: <kutztown46> thanks. I did play tennis competetively USTA age groups)in my 40s and 50s but find the stress on my body makes that unreasonable these days. |
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May-16-08
 | | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 47. Rbb8 <Nc1>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 47. Rbb8 <Rg6>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 47. Rbb8 <Rd6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 47. Rbb8 <c4>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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| May-17-08 | | RandomVisitor: I have an idea - what about setting up a "lessons learned" forum? It is possible that researchers in the field of computer chess might want to study our approach to this game - a lessons learned forum might allow us to collect our insights and help generate conclusions about what it takes to generate strong analysis. |
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May-17-08
| | kutztown46: <RV>
Are you saying have a forum where we do a post-mortem not of the game itself, but of the organization / process we use and how we can improve it? Or is your focus more narrow - just our methods of analysis? |
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May-22-08
| | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg1+>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rf6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg3>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Rfe8>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Re2>> User: dalbertz *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <f5>> User: hms123 *** <Analysis of 48. <Rbe8+> Kd6 49. <Ke2>> User: capafan *** <Analysis of 48. <Rfe8+>> User: not yet a patzer *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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| May-22-08 | | hms123: <kutztown46> I am thrilled to be hosting a forum--is there anything other than the obvious that I need to know? |
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May-22-08
| | kutztown46: <hms123>
We are glad to have you as a forum host. Here are some quick tips: 1) It's nice to keep your header updated - you are already doing this. 2) Don't be a cheerleader for "your move" or become emotionally attached to it. It's easy for that to happen! If you want to participate in the analysis for your line, that's great, but it's OK to work on other lines too. 3) Keep an eye on the main page. If someone posts something pertaining to your line and does not place a copy on your forum, you make a copy and place it on your forum. 4) If you have the time and feel capable of doing it, the team appreciates periodic summaries of the deliberations on your forum, either on your forum header, or on the main page, or on both. Of course, this assumes that your line attracts discussion. There is no guarantee of this! I hope that helps you. Good luck! |
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| May-23-08 | | RandomVisitor: <kutztown46><Are you saying have a forum where we do a post-mortem not of the game itself, but of the organization / process we use and how we can improve it? Or is your focus more narrow - just our methods of analysis?
>Well, there were some lessons that we learned, such as:
1. Everyone posting analysis to the main forum creates clutter, and that the forum system collects similar analysis and allows us to track which candidate moves have had analysis "activity" and which ones did not,
2. An informal poll of who is voting for which move lets us focus more on the candidates that have a chance for winning,
3. Identifying the candidate moves ahead of time allows instant forum "reallocation" once our opponent moves, etc and yes, once we collect more of the lessons learned we can determine what worked and what did not, to make future world-GM games even smoother from an organizational point of view. These are just some thoughts. Perhaps there is no need to collect them all in one place, but it might help explain the success of the world team and perhaps identify the reasons that contributed to our success. |
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May-23-08
| | kutztown46: <RV>
Good. Your focus is fairly broad and I think it will fit well with what I am planning. Once the game is over, I would like to initiate a discussion here on my forum of <all> organizational matters. What did we do well? What did we do poorly? How can we improve? I hope you will participate in the discussion. |
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May-24-08
| | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg1+>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rf6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg3>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Rfe8>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Re2>> User: dalbertz *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <f5>> User: hms123 *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd6> 49. <Ke2>> User: capafan *** <Analysis of 48…<Kd7>> User: not yet a patzer *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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| May-27-08 | | hms123: <K46> Just so you can plan, I will be away (on vacation in Maine) from June 13th through June 25th. I am happy to host a passive forum at that time if you need me. Otherwise, I am glad to be an active host both before and after those dates. |
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| May-27-08 | | hms123: <kutz> there is a reference to your comments on the forum system in the bio section of my forum. It is part of an attempt to educate new members of the team on how to be effective and courteous members. thanks--hms |
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May-28-08
| | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg1+>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rf6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg3>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Rfe8>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Re2>> User: dalbertz *** <Analysis of 49. <Rxe4> Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <f5>> User: hms123 *** <Analysis of 49. <Ke2>> User: capafan *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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| May-28-08 | | benjinathan: A small organizational thought: It seems to me it would be useful if it were possible to copy a post from the main forum and paste it in a Temporary Forum and in so doing make it look like it had been posted by the poster in the Temp. Forum. I hope that is clear. The problem is that currently if I cut one of Zanshin's posts from the main forum and post it in my forum it will look like it was posted by me. If it were possible to copy and paste like that it might them make sense to seek a volunteer for a job of copying posts from the main forum to the appropriate temp. forum. What do you think? Is it worth asking CG? |
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| May-29-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <benjinathan: A small organizational thought: It seems to me it would be useful if it were possible to copy a post from the main forum and paste it in a Temporary Forum and in so doing make it look like it had been posted by the poster in the Temp. Forum. ...
What do you think? Is it worth asking CG?>
I predict they would refuse, because this would amount to spoofing if done as a copy, and would be likely rather complex to do if done via some kind of aliasing to make sure that the same post appears in multiple forums. Major database reorganization, not worth the effort, I suppose. Instead of copying, how about just linking the post? The added benefit is that users that are not subscribed to the game cannot read it. |
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| May-29-08 | | zanshin: <b> I'm going to have to go with <MAJ> on this one. If I understand you correctly, you want a 'forum organizer' to be able to copy posts into the temp forums and give the appearance that it was the original poster from the main forum. I also predict CG would refuse, even if it could be done easily (which I doubt). I'm sure you can see how the ability to post as someone else is open to abuse. For a short time, I attempted to do this - copy posts from the main forum to the appropriate temp forums, and I encountered many problems. The threads in the main forum are not always easy to follow because the analysts stop posting the full lines. When 2 or 3 of them go at it, you can see posts like "<52.Kf2!> is an improvement". If you are not one of the participants in the thread, you don't know what they are talking about and it will cause more harm copying this post to the wrong forum. Sometimes you will come across a post with a comment and no analysis like "This line leads nowhere." I found myself making judgements about the reliability of the poster. If it's someone like <kwid> or <Thorsson>, I stop to consider it, otherwise ... Obviously, you can copy posts into temp forums now or you can link to important posts as <MAJ> suggests. Either way, I would advise doing so only for key posts (again at the discretion of the organizer). While I was never comfortable seeing my avatar all over a temp forum, not once did I get a complaint that I was not giving credit to the analyst. As long as you include the handle of the analyst in your post, people know what you are doing. |
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| May-29-08 | | Red October: <zanshin> one other reason I stopped copying posts from the main page or rather started copying them very very selectively, is that sometimes though a stronger line had been found earlier, someone comes along and posts a line which had been busted or improved upon a few days later making the analysis confusing and in a few cases unreliable, eventually the analysts them selves started posting directly in the forum and i had to copy stuff rarely |
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| May-29-08 | | zanshin: <RO> That's an excellent point. A couple of times, I knew not to post lines that had been busted. But that was only because I knew that from a few posts earlier. When you're not following a thread, it's really hard to know which posts should be ignored. |
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May-29-08
| | kutztown46: <benjinathan>
<MAJ> and <zanshin> are probably correct that cg.com would not like the idea. However, I do not see that as an impediment to a volunteer copying main page posts to forums. <zanshin> raises valid points about the difficulties, but I still think it is worthwhile, and in fact, I am thinking that next game I might look for a volunteer whose only job would be to do such copying. I don't think it matters at all that the volunteer's name shows up next to the post. |
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| May-29-08 | | zanshin: <kutz> I hate sounding so negative, but will remind you that the analysts themselves asked me to stop copying the posts to the relevant forums ... I think because I was adding to the clutter and was not in a position to decide which posts were worthy of copying. In my case, I will put this down to an experiment that did not work. That's fine, we learn from such experiences. Having said that, another volunteer might be more successful. |
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| May-30-08 | | benjinathan: Ok guys, bad idea I see. Thanks for taking all that time to respond. I guess we just have to live with the problem. |
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May-31-08
| | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg1+>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <f5> <Rf6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <f5> <Rg3>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Rfe8>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Re2>> User: dalbertz *** <Analysis of 49…Kd5 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <f5>> User: hms123 *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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| May-31-08 | | sentriclecub: <I am thinking that next game I might look for a volunteer whose only job would be to do such copying. I don't think it matters at all that the volunteer's name shows up next to the post.> Hey Kutz, I'm spending some more time here lately. That new server really makes this site faster, and smoother. Since this game is in the final stage, I wanted to say thanks for being in charge of the forum system so dependably. The issue does need to be solved about clutter. It is hard for me to follow and get the information I want because the system isn't followed by everyone, and I spend too much time trying to figure out where the next piece of information is (and/or if it exists at all). The way wikipedia deals with the problem is that if the stuff exists, the link to it is green. If it doesn't exist, the link is red. Also, I think its worth reminding ourselves that the complexity of chess is owed some of the blame. I still don't know the official stance of whether or not the forums are used as "best of" where only certain posts go (and some also go in the main forum) or if all analysis is supposed to exist on the appropriate forum page (and none on the main page). I've thought about it, but haven't asked yet, but feel that I know enough now that the answer is yes. I think that the lack of organization is actually bringing down the team's elo. I dont understand why the benefits of 100% implementation of your forum system aren't clear to everybody? I see it as a huge potential tool, but some see it as just a fancy yet redundant system that we spend so much time on but doesn't matter if one single user doesn't utilize afterall a lot of people don't utilize it. I think the whole team should discuss the merits of how and why our team organizes itself. The team is lucky to have you as the forum organizer, but not everyone thanks you by using them, and still anyone <seriously interested> in the game, has to check both, and incur frustrations. This post doesn't have a single proposal, other than the one, that it should be a priority now to solve the challenge as to how we organize ourselves and reduce clutter and encourage enforcement. -side note, I don't think if someone who choses to ignore the forum system and instead posts on the main forum, that they should not have the right to object to having someone else go behind them and put stuff where it belongs. If they are allowed to openly undermine the forum system, and we have to say "oh that's ok, the whole team should sacrifice and cater to you, and make this chessgames-challenge better for you and worse for us", then we don't see the obviousness of what they are actually doing. Who is the person or persons, that disallows having their stuff copied/pasted to appropriate form? I would like to hear their side of the story. |
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Jun-01-08
| | kutztown46: Temporary Forums:
*** <Analysis of 50. <f5> <Rg1+>> User: Red October *** <Analysis of 50. <f5> <Rf6>> User: mckmck *** <Analysis of 50. <f5> <Rg3>> User: Deep Breath *** <Analysis of 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Rfe8>> User: Karpova *** <Analysis of 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <Re2>> User: dalbertz *** <Analysis of 50. <Rxe3> Kd4 51. <f5>> User: hms123 *** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan |
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A majority vote for 1-0 means we resign. 