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M61MG Wrestler
Member since Jun-28-09 · Last seen Nov-05-14
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   M61MG Wrestler has kibitzed 26 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-05-14 M61MG Wrestler chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ==== <James Demery> The link has been updated to this one: Robert James Fischer As the owners of this website clean up the old trash, the links above get broken. You called on an investigation of the M61MG book's legitmacy, and Trice's puppet <hackmate> made up a
 
   Jun-16-14 Viktor Korchnoi (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <petrosianic: a few words that Fischer didn't even say (see "My 61 Memorable Games Hoax"). > http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... .
 
   Sep-27-12 Adams vs Gelfand, 2012 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: Whereas Adams is seventh place....he needs to try harder. :)
 
   Feb-15-12 Bobby Fischer (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <♗=== UGH ===♗> <Joshka: <rannewman> Those notes were collected and written over decades, and according to reports I've read, they measure some 22 inches high stacked on top of one another! The bootlegged book was printed in Iceland 2007. IM Larry ...
 
   Jun-23-11 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
...
 
   Aug-12-09 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: In my profile I am having difficulty getting certain lines to separate, without adding a blank line in between. How can I ensure that a line of text starts on a new line? Here is an example that DOES NOT SEPARATE with a carriage return: Evans 1st M61MG Article ...
 
   Jul-25-09 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ Reminder to all: If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite you to visit my chessforum. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion from all users that takes place on my forum.
 
   Jul-25-09 Shirov vs R Panjwani, 2009 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite your to visit my chessforum, on which no CG.COM user is banned from participating. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion that takes ...
 
   Jul-03-09 H Olafsson vs P Smirnov, 2008 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗////LINKS NEEDED\\\\♗ I'm looking for good links to headline the "Uncovering the Truth" page. See the short kibitz history on my forum. Improvements solicited, and most welcome.
 
   Jun-29-09 chancho chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: New location for discussing "My 61 Mem Games", including all* previous posts on that topic from Mrs. Alekhine's forum. Click my Avatar to join in. Anyone is welcome. *some pruning has occurred on irrelevant posts.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Uncovering the Truth About M61MG

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 38 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-26-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Pyke> He probably deleted it because he noticed he contradicted himself in some of the things that he wrote.

Take this post for instance:

<Jul-02-09>

<Ed Trice: All copies from the bookstore are sold. I made no deal with them, at all. In fact, I bought the last two copies.>

<July-25-09>

<Ed Trice: I don't "push" the book. I have at least one copy with me wherever I go. Ask anybody that knows me in chess circles that actually is with me when I play.>

Before the World Open, Trice was saying he had seen the book, but did not possess it. But now the impression is that he's had M61MG before the World Open. And another question: Goichberg and Yanez told him to put the books away, so clearly he did not buy them from the bookstore at the World Open. So the question is: where did he get the book?

Jul-26-09  JustToClarify: I just updated my Wikipedia user page to discuss the "pro-Trice accounts" (I know damn well all of these accounts are run by Trice, but I can't say that on the Wikipedia because of policies we have there); if you click on "Block Log" link next to the account you can see three of the five Wikipedia accounts have been blocked for inappropriate Wikipedia editing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:J...

As an aside, the "block user" link won't work unless you're a Wiki admin. Anyway, it's a non-issue; Trice hasn't used any of his accounts to edit the Wikipedia since January 31.

Trice: I know you read these postings, even if you pretend not to. I haven't forgotten about your actions at the Wikipedia, and should you ever try to go back there to add more BS to articles, I will undo your edits and humiliate you in front of the Wikipedia community. Just like you were humiliated in January.

I have proof of your lies because of some of your Wikipedia edits. I know you want people to forget the temper tantrum you had because we found out your Gothic Chess patent had expired, lying through your teeth that the patent had not expired, threatening everyone with lawsuits. Well, sorry Trice but it won't be forgotten:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...

I actually hope you come back to the Wikipedia, Trice. It brings me a lot of pleasure to see you held accountable to the truth. We didn't and we won't let you put your lies on the Wikipedia; you don't have any evidence or reliable sources to back them up.

Jul-26-09  Jim Bartle: It's confusing but fascinating to follow that Wikipedia page, at least for me. Do you believe ChessHistorian is actually Trice?
Jul-26-09  JustToClarify: Well, about ChessHistorian, who makes these kinds of grandiose claims:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...

Jul-26-09  Jim Bartle: Thanks, and wow. Is it common for people to get so involved in the details of their Wikipedia pages? I've heard politicians have aides try to keep their pages positive, but otherwise I wouldn't think people would care that much.
Jul-26-09  GravityWave: I can empathize with Trice--the wiki people are ridiculous. About six months ago a friend of mine, who is a reporter, tried to post an article about me. It was quickly denied for lack of citation, yet everything was true.

I really did cure cancer. I really did single-handedly fake the moon landing. The Berlin Wall? Yeah, I took that down. They wouldn't even acknowledge my work on taking down the ice queen in narnia. The nerve.

So Ed, leave these morons to their bickering, and lets continue with our thankless job of suckling the world with our intelligence. I feel ya brother--my teats are raw too, but somebody has to nourish the children.

Jul-26-09  Ron: As stated on this site in older posts, I think the 2008 publication, "My 61 Memorable Games" is a hoax, not written by Fischer. But I never read the book, and I am wondering about the quality of the book's contents. Is it a bad chess book as such? Is the chess analysis good? How is the writing style?
Jul-26-09  JustToClarify: Jim:

People doing POV-pushing is farily common in the Wikipedia. It's usually about political issues or topics where a small outspoken minority (White supremacists, people with radical religious beliefs, etc.) are advocates for their cause.

You also get a lot of vandals on the Wikipedia. Vandalism is pretty easy to spot, but with over a million pages to watch, we don't always catch subtle vandalism.

There are people like Trice who try and use the Wiki to stroke their ego, but they are fairly rare. Usually, the issue is people trying to advertise their blog, product, company, or service; the issue is almost always people trying to link to their website from the Wikipedia.

Another thing quite common is people putting up pages about their garage band.

Arguments are quite common, and petty little edit wars where both editors are too proud to compromise are quite common. Deletion discussion ("Is this notable enough for the Wikipedia?") can become quite heated. Some of these discussions are over the most funny trivial things; we even have a list of some of the more humorous petty edit wars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...

If you any other questions about the Wiki and our culture, let us know. We can use more editors who know a lot about Chess:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...

Anyway, Trice is gone from the Wiki and, yeah, unless he makes some radical changes to his behavior, the Wiki is better off without him.

Jul-26-09  JustToClarify: Another comment: Because of Wikipedia policies, I really can't keep a page criticizing Trice's edits up. However, the anti-Trice version of my page has been archived and can be seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...

Jul-26-09  Jim Bartle: Actually, more than chess, I would like to improve the pages on two mountain ranges in Peru, the Cordillera Blanca and the Cordillera Huayhuash. They're pretty sketchy and have errors now.

I have many books on the subjects and could cite references, but really most of it is just personal knowledge, or material from my own books.

Jul-27-09  JonDSouzaEva: <Jim Bartle> Just go ahead and change them then! It's easy to do. I often spot mistakes in Wikipedia and so make small changes to articles.
Jul-27-09  Ron: <Arguments are quite common, and petty little edit wars where both editors are too proud to compromise are quite common. Deletion discussion ("Is this notable enough for the Wikipedia?") can become quite heated. >

One time the wikipedia article about this chess web site was deleted, even though this site was used as reference in other chess related Wikipedia articles. If I recall correctly, one of the reasons someone gave for deletion was this this website's chess database wasn't anthing special, other sites have way more games. As if a database is all there is to this site! Its like saying a 300 game winning pitcher should not have an article because his batting average was only .220. Some members here created a new wikipeida article.

Jul-28-09  Ed Trice: <In 2008, he tried multiple times to add information about his BS $15,000,000 Gothic Chess tournament to the Wikipedia article about Bobby Fischer.>

Yet when FIscher died, this was prominently mentioned in The Philadelphia Inquirer.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KQ8DMAfZC...

I showed all of the documentation to the reporter who interviewed me and gathered material for the person who wrote the article. They contacted the bank to verify the information.

The $15,000,000 was in that account. No matter how many times you lie about it after the fact, you can't change history.

You can read the words of Susan Polgar in that article, confirming the money was there.

Jul-28-09  PinnedPiece: Attacks on <Ed Trice> for his insistance that there was a $15M pot pledged to a Fischer-Karpov match, as far as I'm concerned, are immaterial to the issue of whether M61MG(H) deserves the Hoax designation.

Proving false the claims that the funds were there DOES NOT prove M61MG is an unauthorized hoax.

By the same token, if <Ed Trice> manages somehow to establish that such a fund existed, that in no way increases the likihood of authenticity of ANY ASPECT of M61MG, imo.

The $15M continues to be brought up here as if this page is dedicated to frying <Ed Trice> for past sins. I don't think that's the purpose of this page.

There are enough flaws in the claims on the M61MG book itself (and inside it), and by past sellers, and by past promoters (various real and fake accounts), and by past reviewers (up to this point, no concensus because of a lack of reviewers) that I don't see a need to thin out that acid bath, with all these other pollutants.

===

btw <ET>, why did you never supply <Ray Keene> with a review copy like he requested?

Jul-28-09  Jim Bartle: You're right, of course. But everything about the $15M is just so ludicrous on so many levels.
Jul-28-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Pinned Piece> It might be immaterial, but watching him post clippings from a newspaper and mentioning Polgar as a reference to convince us all is highly amusing. I wonder what Polgar thinks now, given how he's been exposed six ways from Sunday.
Jul-28-09  Jim Bartle: One single article in one newspaper. Where he himself provided the "documentation."

And Susan Polgar believes him.

Awesome.

Jul-28-09  JustToClarify: Mr. Trice,

You know the $15 million did not exist. I know it did not exist. There is no point in us trying to discuss the matter.

I am not going to even pretend that $15 million was remotely plausible. No, you never had $15 million of funding for the Fischer-Karpov tournament that never happened. No, you never had thousands of people going to Gothic Chess tournaments. Yes, the Gothic Chess patent expired, and no, you never paid the patent renewal fees.

Until you're willing to admit that you've been loose with the truth, there is no point in me trying to directly engage you. You're not going to get better until you're willing to be a man about your mistakes and admit that you sometimes exaggerate the truth a little.

If you can't swallow your pride and do this, you will continue to not have any respect here.

I hope you get better, but it's ultimately your decision. I know you're a talented programmer; your Gothic Vortex program is excellent and you did make some contributions to weakly solving checkers. I just wish you would direct your talents more towards endeavors where you could better benefit yourself and the world.

Take care

JTC

Jul-28-09  JustToClarify: PinnedPiece: It's perfectly logical to conclude that someone who lied about having $15 million, thousands of people going to Gothic Chess tournaments, paying the Gothic Chess patent fees, etc. would also lie about having a book that Fischer wrote.

I understand you want to be fair to Trice and feel maybe we're being unfair to him. Believe me: I really want him to get better, but until he owns up to his present and past mistakes, I, and a lot of other people here, are going to continue to have no respect for him.

JTC

Jul-28-09  Riverbeast: At this point, I'm getting the feeling Trice just loves the attention..and you people are indulging him by continuing to talk about this.

The fraud has been brought to light, the culprits exposed....Why don't we just declare victory and move on, instead of feeding Trice's narcissism and desire for more infamy?

Asking him to apologize and come clean is a waste of time....To some people, "there's no such thing as bad publicity" (as the saying goes)....As long as they get it.

Just another parasite trying to make his reputation off the coattails of those more talented and accomplished....It's what Fischer had to deal with his entire life, and it's the burden of geniuses and accomplished people everywhere.

So now that the mission has been accomplished regarding this book, I respectfully suggest we put Trice back into the den of obscurity that he fears the most.

P.S. I now understand that my earlier suggestion that we scan '61MG' on the internet, in order to subject it to public examination and ridicule, would have been a bad idea for the same reasons....Thanks to the kibitzers here who helped me realize that!

Jul-28-09  JustToClarify: Jim: About fixing the Wikipedia, it's best if you can use information from books you have and let people know which books you use.

For example, here's a Wikipedia edit without a reference:

Mount Wazdoo in Peru has a height of 4210 meters at its summit.

And the same edit with a reference:

Mount Wazdoo in Pero has a height of 4210 meters at its summit <ref>John Smith. Mountains in Peru. pp. 178-179. Published 1994 by Peru press. ISBN 123456789-0.</ref>

Sometimes the <ref> tag doesn't work, at which point you need to add a reference list to the article:

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

This makes a pretty reference list.

Jul-28-09  JustToClarify: I don't have any issues with Rob Mitchell, and don't know anyone besides Mr. Trice who does have issues with him.

Anyway, this is a distraction; Mr. Trice hasn't admitted the number of falsifications he has made and I am, at this point, going to ignore him until he becomes man enough to admit his errors.

Someone who lies about having $15 million or thousands of people going to a Gothic Chess tournament has lost my trust. I don't think they will be honest about their finances and about who does or does not owe them money either.

Jul-28-09  Jim Bartle: As I've said before, the undeniable truth about this book is going to come out sooner or later. Claiming it's written by Fischer is just a hopeless stalling action.
Jul-28-09  PinnedPiece: Because <Ed Trice> has fixated on this comforting <Rob Mitchell> thing for the last couple months, AND CAN'T WEAN HIMSELF OFF OF IT....

It looks to me like <Ed Trice> became unhorsed, his truck bounced off its carriage, his front door jumped its hinges, the petals fell off his flowers, and the bats took up residence in his belfry after his escapade involving <Rob Mitchell>.

I wonder if <RM> recognized any of these things (bat dung DOES emit a strong odor) when he was dealing with <Ed Trice>, or if this all became apparent sometime later.

I simply can't imagine anyone apparently this bonkers being able to write cogent analytical chess pieces.

Hmm-mm-mm....you don't suppose....maybe sowing doubt is the point of all this?

.

Jul-28-09  MrMelad: <chancho:Trice is a fast talker, but no matter how good he is, facts are very stubborn things> Yes but this dude got himself a big wikipedia page, and a big reputation in the chess world (Although rated hundreds of points behind a kibitzer like me) based upon his only talent: conning people. He is not like the average liar, this in one or two steps further. It is the complete form of rewriting history, with sock puppets and reliable media, and we should remember that if this Evil didn't blunder with the M61MG he could still be in that spot. And it frightens me to think of all the consequences, globally speaking.

I must tell you, this whole situation made me evaluate internet scams to whole new level. To an academic level. Trice, like many evils before him took his work to a degree of art.

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