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| Dec-02-11 | | King Death: <Phony Benoni> Bartender, may I have another? I was a little bit confused on Piazza. Like they say, wait till next year! You're right, this year's class is really weak. Here's an article I read yesterday about one of the first timers who was a class act but who will probably not make it for a long time (if he ever does): http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yank... |
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Dec-02-11
 | | WannaBe: Left-overs from previous years, I'd vote for J. Morris, A. Trammell, not sold on the others. First yearers, I'd vote for none of them, not even B. Williams, because he played for the Yankees. =) Okay, maybe I'll give him 1/2 vote. |
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| Dec-02-11 | | technical draw: <King Death><You're right, this year's class is really weak. Here's an article I read yesterday about one of the first timers who was a class act but who will probably not make for a long time (if he ever does)> Amazing, right away, without checking the link, I KNEW you were talking about Bernie Williams. Too bad, he was a good player but the numbers aren't there. |
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| Dec-03-11 | | King Death: < technical draw: I KNEW you were talking about Bernie Williams. Too bad, he was a good player but the numbers aren't there.> Unfortunately, Williams had solid numbers across the board but no single statistic that jumps out as a hook. He was a Gold Glover in center field too but that isn't enough to put him over the top. |
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Dec-03-11
| | WannaBe: I think to have survived in NY & Georgie's Reign, he should have had gone into HoF automatically!! |
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Dec-03-11
 | | Phony Benoni: Bernie Williams and Alan Trammell suffer from the same HOF problem: solid, consistent players who were important cogs on good teams, but never able to establish themselves individually or build up the big numbers. |
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| Dec-03-11 | | playground player: I think it was Bill James who said that to get into the Hall of Fame, you have to be better than Bobby Bonds. I enjoyed watching Bernie Williams throughout his career, but I can't say he passes the Bobby Bonds test. After all, we're talking about outfielders like Willie Mays and Babe Ruth and Al Kaline and Joe DiMaggio. Would you trade any of those guys for Bernie Williams? |
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Dec-03-11
| | Phony Benoni: <playground player> But would you trade Bob Meusel or Ross Youngs or Enos Slaughter to get Bernie Williams? Those are the Hall-of-Famers he compares with. |
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| Dec-03-11 | | Jim Bartle: I see now that Suh is suspended and can't stomp on opposing linemen for a while, he's taken to attacking trees with his car. |
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| Dec-03-11 | | Jim Bartle: If Bernie Williams is a Hall of Famer (instead of a Hall of Reallygooder), I can name dozens of players I've seen who deserve to be in as well. Just the Giants have had many equally good players since I've followed them: Bobby Bonds, Jim Ray Hart, Tom Haller, Jeff Kent, Will Clark, Jack Clark, Garry Maddox, Matt Williams, Brett Butler, etc. Those aren't Hall of Famers. |
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Dec-03-11
| | WannaBe: People always talk about M. Wills, and if B. Williams ends up in the same boat... Heck, personally, I think the whole '81 & '88 Dodgers should be in the HoF!! |
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| Dec-03-11 | | Jim Bartle: You mean BOTH Ferguson and Yeager? If there were a place for entire infields rather than individual players, the LA infield from the 70s-80s would waltz in. Meanwhile, #1 powerhouse LSU has 12 total yards at halftime against Georgia. |
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Dec-03-11
| | WannaBe: <Jim Bartle> I am rooting for UGA, I want to see Mass Chaos in the BCS, Houston already got upset by Southern Miss. I want to see 10,000 teams with 1 loss all claiming why they should be the one in the BCS game. |
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Dec-03-11
| | Phony Benoni: <WannaBe> That sounds like a good thing. Maybe they would go to a playoff system, so that 20,000 teams with two losses each could argue why they should make it to the postseason. <JB> I agree; Bernie Williams has no better case than any of the players you mention, except that he was a cog in a dynasty rather than a good team. That's how Meusel and Youngs made it. Slaughter at least had a bit of color, and may have gotten in under the Dizzy Dean exemption. |
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Dec-03-11
| | WannaBe: Game is pretty much over, LSU will be the only Division I-A undefeated team. Perhaps Okl. St. will put up a good show and get voted #2? <Phony Benoni> Pppppptttttttthhhhhhh!! =)) |
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Dec-03-11
| | Phony Benoni: Well, let's take a look at the 1981 Dodgers roster.
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... I'd say the two with the best chance for the Hall of Fame are Mike Scioscia and Dusty Baker. They've had decent managerial careers. Rick Sutcliffe may not have as good a chance for the broadcaster's wing. One good thing for the team's chances is that Bill Buckner was gone by then, meaning the Boston Bloc will not come into play. |
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Dec-03-11
 | | Penguincw: < Phony Benoni: <Penguincw> I saw the mate in one fairly quickly, so began considering the legality of the position. As it stands, it's clearly impossible. Since only one piece (a Black rook) has been captured, White has made only one capture and Black none.
Now if Black is at the bottom of the board (WK on c1), the two f-pawns could not get past each other without at least two captures. On the other hand, if White is at the bottom of the board (WK on f8), there is the same problem with pawns getting behind each other without capturing on all the other files. I suspect you intend Black to be at the bottom, and simply miswrote the colors of the f-pawns. Switch them, and the position is possible. > Actually, I forgot the king rook somewhere. Now the position was actually from a game that I made up and played through. However, to make the puzzle interesting, I added every captured piece somewhere randomly on the board to make it creative. If you want to know the real position, here it is:
click for larger viewSomewhere along those lines. |
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| Dec-03-11 | | King Death: < playground player: ..we're talking about outfielders like Willie Mays and Babe Ruth and Al Kaline and Joe DiMaggio. Would you trade any of those guys for Bernie Williams? > If we're using this is as the test, nobody in their right mind trades Kaline (the "worst" of that group) for Williams. It's just like <Phony Benoni> said: there were a bunch of players who got in from those 20s New York teams on what I think I've seen called a "halo effect". He named two, and I could come up with a few more, especially the Yankee pitchers from back then. Should Jack Morris really be in there with a career ERA+ of 105, just like Herb Pennock at 106? If we use this as the yardstick, that makes them 5-6% better than league average for a career. Somehow I think we can do better. Pennock got there on the backs of Ruth and Gehrig, just like a bunch of others. He was a better than average pitcher on some fine teams, but.... |
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Dec-04-11
| | WannaBe: Cin-Pit/Oak-Mia have to be the games of interest in the early games, GB-NYG is the game to watch later, night game is kinda of a blah. |
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| Dec-04-11 | | King Death: <WannaBe> Everything got turned upside down. Just when we all thought Indy-NE was going to be the feature game, that one means it's nap time. Lions-Saints and NYG-GB could be shootouts though. |
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| Dec-04-11 | | Jim Bartle: Lions-Saints, a rivalry which goes back 2000 years. I think Lions had a big advantage for a long time. Saints claimed biased refereeing, and that the league was prejudiced against them. |
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Dec-04-11
| | Phony Benoni: Barf. Saints got The Luckiest Break of All Time on my birthday in 1970, when Dempsey kicked that 63-yard field goal. I was screaming at the TV, "Oh, come on! It's got to be a fake!" It took several days to raise my jaw afterward.
Tonight, I don't know. The Lions may be on a mission, or they may fall completely flat. I fear the latter. And the only team shooting out in GB-NY will be the Packers. Giants' coach might be looking for a job by Tuesday. Personally, I'm rooting for Indy to shock the world. Lions fans tend to feel like the 1972 Dolphins. |
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Dec-04-11
| | WannaBe: Tongue in cheek, G. Kasparov even gets mentioned, along side Tebow, Gary must feel so honoured. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100... |
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| Dec-04-11 | | Jim Bartle: Alex Karras made some hilarious comments about Dempsey's FG. He said he could have blocked it, except he was laughing too hard at the thought of even trying a kick at that distance. "Then I head this SOUND, unlike anything I'd ever heard, an explosion, and the ball was on its way." |
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| Dec-04-11 | | playground player: <King Death> I threw in Kaline as a tribune to <Phony Benoni's> forum. Seriously, though--Kaline did have 3,000 hits. And as opposed to Ross Youngs or Bob Meusel or Enos Slaughter, I did see Kaline play, and he was among the very best the A.L. had to offer during the 50's and 60's. Just comparing Bernie Williams to some not-so-very-long-ago Yankees... He never generated the kind of excitement that Reggie Jackson did. Thurman Munson was the heart and guts of some great Yankee teams, and he isn't in the Hall of Fame. Ditto Ron Guidry, Sparky Lyle, Willie Randolph, Graig Nettles--and none of them made it to the HOF. Only Reggie. Frankly, I think the Yankees could have won championships without Reggie before they won them without Munson or Nettles. And on and on the HOF debate goes: as they used to say in the paratrooper regiments, "It's foolish but it's fun." |
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