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| Dec-05-11 | | King Death: <Phony Benoni> Late in the game, I was watching Jim Schwartz as they were giving closeups of him after all of those stupid penalties. Three calls on Burleson for pass interference? They have to be more disciplined. |
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| Dec-05-11 | | Jim Bartle: Detroit had two types of penalties, those during play and the stupid after-the-play penalties. The offensive pass interference calls hurt, but at least they occurred during play, weren't dirty or really stupid, and the passes wouldn't have been complete if he hadn't pushed off. But throwing a ball in the face of an opposing player? Pushing (or hitting) a referee after a successful play? Just stupid. You've got to be smarter than that. And what will will happen with the boy named Suh returns? |
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| Dec-05-11 | | King Death: <Jim> What Pettigrew did was stupid, just as you say. In a league where the refs are happy to hit you for 15 yards when you celebrate a bit too much, it's better to let it go. What would Pettigrew have done if that ref had really gotten in his face? As far as Suh goes, he may not learn until he gets nailed for something like 8 games. He's headed that way if he doesn't clean it up. Goodell will bring the hammer down on him and make the suspension he's on now look like a walk in the park. |
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| Dec-05-11 | | Jim Bartle: Suh's a great player from the little I've seen (plus watching him at Nebraska). What does he really gain by all this stuff? He should just crush the guys on offense during the play, legally. |
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Dec-05-11
 | | Phony Benoni: It's now becoming known that Suh also had a "bully" attitude at Nebraska. The Lions didn't mind when they drafted him, since that's the image they wanted to help recover some respect after all the bad years. The downside is becoming apparent now, and some of the veterans are growling. One problem is that coach Schwartz has been letting it go, if not encouraging it. Remember his blowup after the post-game handshake with the San Francisco coach? It's got to start at the top, and there have to be consequences for players who do stupid things--and not just league consequences. Suh's attitude has been both good and bad for the team. Again, he earns nothing but praise away from the field for his attitude and intelligence, so you'd think he would be able to recognize his problems and change. But he may be one of those people who can't change, regardless of the consequences. That nature is an essential part of their competitiveness, and without it they are not as effective. |
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| Dec-05-11 | | hangingenprise: travis: ur form was non existent.
that was the raiders taxi squad that
played in miami.
i tuned the raiders out at half time and tuned in the broncos in the second half. as i stated before the broncos will win the anemic division.
again tebow, no turnovers! |
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| Dec-05-11 | | King Death: One long wait for Cubs fans is over: Ron Santo finally made it to the Hall. http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/stor... |
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Dec-05-11
 | | WannaBe: It's too bad that Ron is not around, I often think about why a player don't get in while they are alive. But in death, their 'status' is elevated? (no, I don't intend the pun here, but I can't find a better word...) Often, we'd see/hear about so-and-so got the Oscar because he/she is near death, and they want to honour them, I just have mixed feeling on the voters or the committees that didn't do it while so-and-so is still with us. |
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| Dec-05-11 | | Jim Bartle: I don't understand how Santo wasn't worthy while he was alive, but is after he's died. At least the entire Big Three of the Cubs of the 60s is now in the HOF, along with Ferguson Jenkins. |
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Dec-05-11
| | Phony Benoni: For years, the Veterans Committee was the big loophole for old cronies. Its procedures were tightened up about the time Santo became eligible, and the members--primarily current Hall-of-Famers--went through a phase of not voting in any new players, so as to make their own enshrinement more exclusive. They've revamped it again, and I'm glad Santo got in. In fact, I'm sure we'll all raise a glass with our friend <Travis Bickle> in celebration and remembrance. |
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| Dec-05-11 | | King Death: <Phony Benoni> Santo has long been another of those so called marginal cases for Cooperstown. I'm not a Cubs fan and have had no emotional investment in seeing him get there, but I felt for awhile that he should have. |
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| Dec-06-11 | | playground player: No one gave a second thought to Brooks Robinson getting into the HOF, but Ron Santo had to wait until after he died. Robinson won an MVP, and was able to showcase his gifts in several World Series--these two boosts were never given to Santo. But I think the Orioles would've prospered just as well with him in place of Robinson. |
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| Dec-06-11 | | technical draw: < I don't understand how Santo wasn't worthy while he was alive, but is after he's died.> Sometimes it depends on who else is eligible. But rules are changing. |
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Dec-06-11
| | Phony Benoni: <playgruond player> I agree about Robinson. The extra exposure he received in postseason play, particularly his display in the 1970 World Series, probably put him over the top by fixing in everyone's mind that he was the Greatest 3rd Baseman of his era. And a long career (23 years) didn't hurt. And yet the extra exposure didn't work for Ken Boyer, who never had that one spectacular moment (plus a relatively short career). Speaking of Ken Boyer, here is the full list the Veterans Committee was considering: Ron Santo
Luis Tiant
Ken Boyer
Minnie Minoso
Gil Hodges
Tony Oliva
Jim Kaat
Allie Reynolds
Buzzie Bavasi
Charlie Finley
Anyone else you would put in? Tiant gets style points; it would be fun if he made it. Boyer I don't think quite measures up to Robinson and Santo. Minoso and Hodges were always on the verge of stardom, but never broke through. Tony Oliva is a very tragic case, but like Tommy Davis you don't get in because of what you might have done if healthy. I would put Kaat higher with 287 wins; a great story, but never quite a great pitcher. Allie Reynolds is a definite no; he's simply there as an old Yankee. Not sure about Buzzie Bavasi, but I would be very tempted to put Charlie Finlen in just to shake things up a little. The man was a visionary, but I don't see Major League Baseball unstuffed-shirting itself long enough to admit it. |
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Dec-06-11
| | Phony Benoni: <King Death> I'm beginning to agree with your conclusions about Ndamukong Suh. During his suspension, he's returned home to Oregon where a couple of nights ago he smashed up his car at 1:15 in the morning. His original story was that he was avoiding a parked taxi and that nobody was hurt, but now a couple of female passengers have come forward to say that he was speeding and they received minor injuries requiring hospital treatment. At least--for the moment--impaired driving does not seem to be a factor. But whoever's story checks out, the mere fact that Suh was driving around at 1:15 in the morning with a couple of female passengers tells me he's treating this suspension as a vacation, not an opportunity to get his head straight and his act together. If I were the Lions, I wouldn't wait for the league to do anything about this. I would suspend Suh for the rest of the season right now. His attitude is infecting the team, and they need a strong message as much as he does. If they see no slack given for a star player, nobody is going to expect any mercy when they screw up. Apparently this is a smart guy who knows how to mask his public persona but not control his inner demons. If this continues, the Lions should learn a lesson from all the teams that tried to reform Albert Haynesworth and be prepared to ship Suh out at the first decent offer. |
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| Dec-06-11 | | King Death: <Phony Benoni> One incident I remember
was during the Dallas run of Super Bowl wins in the 90s. There was a backup running back, playing in the last (meaningless) regular season game one year who fumbled twice and after the game, Jimmy Johnson cut him. Just like that. While the Lions aren't going to do the same thing to Suh, who's to say what will happen if somebody doesn't put the message across that he isn't bigger than the team? Haynesworth was something else, a great talent with a mean streak who couldn't or wouldn't channel it. He may have about shot his bolt though. Of course, he has his money, so what does he care, other than needing the attention? |
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| Dec-06-11 | | Jim Bartle: The 49ers won the Super Bowl after the 81 season, but Walsh wanted to send a message that 82 was a new year (it was, they only played a nine-game season) and cut a couple of the defensive lineman who had starred the previous year. |
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Dec-06-11
| | Phony Benoni: By the way, Suh is scheduled to return for the Lions' game at Oakland. Anybody want to bet the Over for penalty yardage? |
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Dec-06-11
| | WannaBe: What's the number? 200? 220? 250? Both teams, right?! =) 'You Lucky Greg Easterbrook, Because I Like You' Category, in this week's Tuesday Morning Quarterback Article: <Stats of the Week No. 6: All AFC West teams have been outscored on the season.> Dude, I've saying that for weeks! =) Otherwise, I was gonna sue him for $10.00. |
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Dec-06-11
| | Phony Benoni: Checking at http://static.nfl.com/static/conten...: <Most Penalties, Game> 22 Brooklyn vs. Green Bay, Sept. 17, 1944
Chi. Bears vs. Philadelphia, Nov. 26, 1944
San Francisco vs. Buffalo, Oct. 4, 1998
21 Cleveland vs. Chi Bears, Nov. 21, 1951
Baltimore vs. Detroit, Oct. 9, 2005
20 Tampa Bay vs. Seattle, Oct. 17, 1976
Oakland vs. Denver, Dec. 15, 1996
<Most Penalties, Both Teams, Game> 37 Cleveland (21) vs. Chi. Bears (16), Nov. 21, 1951
35 Tampa Bay (20) vs. Seattle (15), Oct. 17, 1976
34 San Francisco (22) vs. Buffalo (12), Oct. 4, 1998
<Most Yards Penalized, Game> 212 Tennessee vs. Baltimore, Oct. 10. 1999
209 Cleveland vs. Chi. Bears, Nov. 25, 1951
191 Phildadelphia vs. Seattle, Dec. 13, 1992 (ot)
<Most Yards Penalized, Both Teams, Game> 374 Cleveland (209) vs. Chi. Bears (165), Nov. 25, 1951 310 Tampa Bay (190) vs. Seattle (120), Oct. 17, 1976
Green Bay (175) vs. Baltimore (135), Dec. 7, 2009
309 Green Bay (184) vs. Boston (125), Oct. 21, 1945
That Cleveland vs. Bears game on 11/25/1951 seems to have been a pretty rough one, setting the record for most penalties and yardage on both teams. You might want to take a guess at the winning team and final score before looking here: http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXboxscoresX... |
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| Dec-07-11 | | King Death: Two games with 22 calls in 1944? It must have been those replacement players during the war. It was unreal to see Blanda in that 1951 box, even though I remember him well as early as 1962 or so. Another one of interest is that TB-Seattle game in the maiden voyage for those two franchises. |
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| Dec-07-11 | | playground player: <Phony Benoni> Based on having seen both of them play, I have to say Ken Boyer's best was better than Ron Santo's, but Santo managed to play at a high level for a little longer. I would've voted for both of them. I don't understand why Orlando Cepeda is in the HOF (and he was one of my favorites), but not Gil Hodges. Minoso and Tiant were very entertaining players who flavored the game, but their numbers are not HOF numbers. So the question is, who from the late 50s-60s-early 70s should be in the Hall, but isn't yet. I would consider nominations for Roger Maris, Mickey Lolich, and maybe... oh, I don't know. I think just about everybody who should be in, is in. |
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Dec-07-11
| | WannaBe: Everybody on the 1955 • 1959 • 1963 • 1965 Dodgers should be in the HoF, if they were on 4 squads, they should be in the HoF 4x. (e.g. Walter Alston). Nobody from the '77 or the '78 Yankees team belong in the HoF, they are all cheaters, liars, wife beaters/swappers (True story! Look it up.), dog-kickers, drunks, gamblers, newspaper/milk stealing neighbours, peeping-toms, and probably left the toilet seat up, too! |
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Dec-07-11
| | Phony Benoni: Easy there, Wabbit. Will you at least let players from the 1981 Yankees into the Hall? They deserve some consolation for letting the Dodgers win the Series instead of thrashing them as in 77-78. <playground player> Good question about Hodges vs. Cepeda. Their power numbers were close. Cepeda held a 25-point edge in batting average, but Hodges was probably better in the field and his teams were more successful. Maybe it was bad luck. In Cepeda's last year of eligibility, he got 73.5% and fell just seven votes short of election. The Veterans Committee put him in five years later. In Hodges' last year, he got only 63.4% of the vote. That was his best showing, but nowhere close to election. Thing is, the field of nomines in Hodges' last year was much stronger than Cepeda's, with twice as many future Hall of Famers. That undoubtedly took votes away from Hodges, as well as the "almost made it" aura that Cepeda had. |
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| Dec-07-11 | | Jim Bartle: I agree Minnie Minoso's record isn't up to HoF standards, but he didn't get to play much until he was 26, and I would guess that had a lot to do with the slow pace of integration rather than his abilities. If you add four years which could be expected for a guy who played like he did from age 26 to 36, and you'd have stats which looked a lot closer to Hall-worthy. |
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