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| Jun-08-09 | | Benzol: <Phony Benoni: Hi Paul--you can fix bios, right? In the last sentence of the bio for Yosef Porat, you might want to change <Assian Zonal>.> Yes Dave I can and I have. Thanks for pointing out the error. Cheers mate. :) |
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| Jun-08-09 | | A.G. Argent: <groan, wail and cringe> Cards swept by the Rockies. At home. (The horror, the horror, the horror.) |
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Jun-08-09
 | | Phony Benoni: Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Anybody ever fool around with the Frivolities page at Baseball-Reference.com? (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f...) Another great time-waster. My favorite is the Oracle of Baseball, which will find the shortest link of teammates between any two players. Sort of like the old "Six Degrees of Separation". For instance, it takes six steps to go from Babe Ruth to Albert Pujols: 1. <Babe Ruth> was a teammate of <Ray Mueller> on the 1935 Boston Braves; 2. <Ray Mueller>-<Howie Fox> (1944 Reds) 3. <howie Fox>-<Curt Simmons> (1952 Phillies) 4. <Curt Simmons>-<Steve Carlton> (1965 Cardinals) 5. <Steve Carlton>-<Bobby Bonilla> (1986 White Sox) 6. <Bobby Bonilla>-<Albert Pujols> (2001 Cardinals). That's just one of many links. You could also go Babe Ruth-Waite Hoyt (24 Yankees)-Bert Haas (38 Dodgers)-Minnie Minoso (51 White Sox)-Terry Forster (76 White Sox)-Chuck Finley (86 Angels)-Albert Pujols (2002 Cardinals). <Bobo Newson> is amazing in this regard--he is only five steps away from <everybody> from 1871-2008! He has the perfect combination of playing with a lot of teams during a long career (1929-1953) right in the middle of the time slot. I imagine he'll probably have most of 2009 covered as well, though those links are not yet in the Oracle database. However, I constructed one for Tiger rookie Rick Porcello: 1. Bobo Newsom-Fred Marsh (52 Senators)
2. Fred Marsh-Minnie Minoso (54 White Sox)
3. Minnie Minoso-Harold Baines (80 WHite Sox)
4. harold Baines-Magglio Ordonez (2001 White Sox)
5. Magglio Ordonez-Rick Porcello (2009 Tigers)
Of course, hitting Minnie Minoso helps a lot! |
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| Jun-08-09 | | playground player: <Jim Bartle> Too bad Danny Kaye never played baseball. In his autobiography, Basil Rathbone said Kaye was the greatest physical mimic he ever saw. Rathbone had to study for many years to become an expert fencer: but Danny Kaye, according to Rathbone, picked it up almost instantaneously, just by imitating the instructor. Rathbone was amazed. So, you see, maybe we could've gotten Kaye to imitate Luis Aparicio in 1959 and become the Giants' shortstop down the stretch... Curse you, <Phony Benoni>! This forum of yours is turning into a kind of tar pit for baseball fans! I'm spending an awful lot more time here than I spend on my own forum. I think I'll go there right now and pretend I'm a visitor. |
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Jun-08-09
| | Phony Benoni: Tigers split with the White Sox. <Jeremy Bonderman> had his first start of the season (shoulder surgery for a blood clot) and got bombed. |
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Jun-14-09
| | Phony Benoni: <Game of the Day>
June 14, 1961: Dr. StrangeGlove hits a run-off tirple: http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1961... |
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| Jun-14-09 | | Jim Bartle: Looking today it's hard to see how that Cincinnati lineup won the pennant. The McClymonds High twins (Robinson and Pinson) were excellent, and Freese had a good year, but otherwise, pretty average. By the rules, I wonder why Stuart was credited with a triple. In driving home the winning run, usually just a single is counted, unless it's a home run. (I love "Clemente singled to catcher." I assume he beat out a bunt, but maybe he beat out a dribbler.) |
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Jun-14-09
| | Phony Benoni: The Reds had a little more pop in the middle of the lineup, as Coleman hit 26 homers and Wally Post 20. Plus, they had three good starters (O'Toole, Jay, Purkey), two good relivers (Bill Henry, Brosnan) and a super pinch-hitter in Jerry Lynch. However, they seem to have been a middle-of-the-road team for whom the stars aligned. The 1961 Tigers were a similar case: they won 101 games (alas, the accursed Yankees won 109), but never came close to that the next few years. Not sure about the scoring rules on "walk-off" hits. I assume you'd get get credit for whichever base you wound up on, and not get "extra credit" if you stopped short. Stuart did hit eight triples that year, so he was capable of legging one out. I think the tendency these days is to stop short in walk-off situations. If you're Orlando Cepeda and you hit a double with Willie Mays on first, there's no need to run to second. If anything, you just increase the chance of being tagged out before Mays can score. |
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| Jun-14-09 | | Jim Bartle: Yes, but Coleman and Post were really just better-than-average players. Coleman certainly wasn't that good in later years. I'd forgotten about Bob Purkey, who was quite a good pitcher. As I wrote before, I went to a Detroit-NY game on Sept. 1, 1961, and at that point I think the Yankees were only a game or so ahead of the Tigers. I read something interesting by Bill James, from 1983. He said the Tigers had all the talent to dominate the American League from 65 to 68 (after the Yankees collapsed, before the Orioles became the team to beat). They had Kaline, Freehan, Cash, McLain, Lolich, Horton and McAuliffe. His broader point was that when the Tigers got close to having a championship team, they didn't go all out and get a couple of players to make it happen. He meant, throughout their history. Of course James wrote that in 83, and the Tigers blew away everything in their path in 84. |
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Jun-15-09
| | Phony Benoni: So how could the Tigers of the mid-60s have improved? There was no free agency, so it would have to be through trades, when you have to give something to get something. And the farm system was pretty well depleted, which explains the awful Tiger teams of the mid-1970s. James, is right, though, in that the Tigers generally have been a farm system team rather than wheeler dealers. And, more often than not, when they have tried something it's backfired on them. The classic case, of course, is trading John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander back in 1987. It helped them win the division that year, but hasn't looked so good since. Before the 2006 season, they brought in Polanco, Ordonez, Ivan Rodgiugez and Carlos Guillen. It worked well that first year, butnow the whole bunch is gone or in delcine. The Tigers are suviving on pitching, which is mostly home grown--except for Dontrelle Willis, who melted down again today (six hits, six runs and eight walks in leas than four innings.) Gary Sheffield wasn't a big success. A few years ago, they tried Juan Gonzalez for a year--no good. No, free agnecy has not been kind to them. It has been good only as a short term solution, not in building a consistently srong team. |
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Jun-15-09
| | Phony Benoni: <GAME OF THE DAY: June 15, 1963> Drott! Foiled again!
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
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| Jun-15-09 | | Jim Bartle: Drott throws a four-hitter at a big-time hitting team, and his teammates don't get a single hit. In Koufax's perfect game, Cub (and ex-Giant) pitcher Bob Hendley only gave up one hit, and that didn't even lead to a run. The Dodgers only run scored because of an error. The Tigers had Smoltz? I never knew that. Trading promising minor leaguers for older pitchers is generally not a great idea: Broglio for Brock, Anderson for Bagwell, Jenkins for Madlock, etc. Detroit did an even bigger favor for the Giants in the early 60s, giving us the hard-hitting Harvey Kuenn for the veteran pitcher Johnny Antonelli, who wasn't good enough to make the Giants rotation any more. I think the heart of James' comment was "How did the Tigers let the 67 pennant slip away?" They seemed to be the best team, but they lost their last two games, I think in a doubleheader. |
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Jun-15-09
| | Phony Benoni: I don't think the Tigers can take credit for trading Kuenn to the Giants--they had already traded him after the 1959 season to Cleveland for Rocky Colavito. That was an interesting swap; Kuenn had won the batting title in 1959, Colavito the home run title. On the whole, I think the Tigers got more out of Colavito. The Tigers of the mid-1960s were sort of a jinxed club. In 1966, they had three managers--not because of poor play, but because the first two (Chuck Dressen and Bob Swift) were taken ill and died before the year was over. And 1967. Oh, don't talk to me about 1967. I almost got an ulcer from that team. That was the year of the Boston Red Sox's Impossible Dream, when they won the pennant with Carl Yastrzemski, Jim Lonborg, and seven guys named Sue. The Twins and White Sox were also in the running up to the final weekend. Lady Luck messed with the Tigers all year long. For instance, they were no-hit twice that year--and still won one of the games when Steve Barber walked 10 and the Baltimore infield fumble-fingered the last out. Then there was Denny Mclain, who missed several crucial starts down the stretch due to a foot injury. The official story is that the foot had "fallen asleep" while he was watching television, and he had wrenched it while getting up. The unofficial story--whcih everyone believes now, knowing McLain's history--was that he had run up some serious gambling debts and received a gentle reminder notice. Due to rainouts, the Tigers finished with two doubleheaders at home against the California Angels. Four wins gave them the pennant. Three would have tied. Two sent them home. They split both doubleheaders. The last batter in the last game was Dick McAuliffe. Two runs down, two runners on, one out. McAuliffe had not hit into a single double play the entire season. Yep. |
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| Jun-15-09 | | Jim Bartle: Yikes, you're right--sorry. The Giants got Kuenn from the Indians. That makes more sense. And I agree, getting Colavito for Kuenn was a good deal for Detroit. Colavito was not only a real power hitter, but an excellent outfielder with a great arm. Doubleheaders on consecutive years? Most teams don't have doubleheaders in consecutive years now. Never heard that about McLain and his "injury." That is not good. Of course he just picked the wrong excuse. He should have said he was washing his truck and fell off. I had not known Dressen had managed the Tigers. Interesting. Too bad they never played Durocher and the Cubs in those days. I know what you mean about the guys named Sue. But remember, they also had their nice gift from Charlie Finley, Ken Harrelson. And they had a good power hitter in Danny Tartabull, plus rookie Reggie Smith. Oops, sorry, that was Jose Tartabull, not Danny. |
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Jun-15-09
| | Phony Benoni: McLain had long-term gambling problems; in fact, he spent several years in jail some time ago for bookmaking. He was a nother sad case of a Cy Young pitcher who blew his arm out winning the award. I guess I exaggerated a bit about the 1967 Red Sox. Reggie Smith, Tartabull and Harrelson weren't big factors in 1967. but most of the team were solid .250-.275 types with some power. George Scott at first hit .301 with 19 HRs, and Tony Conigliaro was having a good season before he got beaned in August. But that Yastremski. A fantastic performance the whole year--but down the stretch he just got ridiculous. He hit safely the last ten games of the season, going 20-for-37 (.545) with 5 HRs and 14 RBIs. In the final two games against Minnesota, with Boston a game behind, he went 7 for 8. |
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| Jun-15-09 | | playground player: Improving the 1961-62 Tigers--well, it sure would've been nice if they could've found some infielders who could catch ground balls and turn double plays. Steve Boros (3B) could hit and Jake Wood (2B) could run, and SS Chico Fernandez flared up for 20 homers in '62--but if that's not a porous infield, I don't know what is. When they finally acquired good fielders--Brinkman, Rodriguez, Wert, even the aging Jerry Lumpe--none of them could hit worth diddly. Granted, it's not so easy to find infielders like Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker: but if you want to win the pennant, you just have to do better than the Tigers did in the 60s. <Jim Bartle> Johnny Antonelli was still All-Star material in 1959: maybe the second-best lefty in the NL, after Spahn. But he deteriorated quickly. Wonder why. |
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| Jun-15-09 | | Jim Bartle: Giants in 62 had a roation of Marichal, Sanford, O'Dell and Pierce (who was unbeatable at Candlestick). Pretty tough to beat out those guys. Yasztremski wasw absolutely in the zone, unconscious at the end of the 67 season. Not only at the plate, he was making great catches in the field as well. I just read that the Tigers and Indians actually traded managers in 1960. Is that true? |
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Jun-15-09
| | Phony Benoni: Yes, that was when Frank Lane was at charge in cleveland, and he liked crazy stunts. It was Jimmie Dykes for Joe Gordon, and neither lasted very long. <Playgournd Player> The Tigers' two biggest weakness in 67-68 were the left side of infield and relief pitching. Don Wert wasn't too bad before he got beaned, but Ray Oyler... In 1968, they won the pennant with Oyler batting .135. Yes, one thirty-five! That was the origin of the great Mickey Stanley experiment in the 68 Series. The Tigers finally stabilized the left size thanks to Denny McLain. They traded him to the Senators before the 1971 for Aurelio Rodriguez, Eddie Brinkman, and Joe Coleman (a good #2 starter). Now <that> was a steal! |
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Jun-16-09
| | Phony Benoni: <GAME OF THE DAY: June 16, 2003>: The Way We Were
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
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| Jun-16-09 | | Jim Bartle: PB, can you find the box for the game in 1973 when Billy Martin decided on his starting lineup by picking the names of the players out of a hat? The game with Cash hitting first and Brinkman hitting fourth? |
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Jun-16-09
| | Phony Benoni: <JB>: Here you are: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... The game was actually in 1972. According to Wikipedia he also did it in this game: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... But outside of having Mickey Rivers hitting fifth, it wasn't such a startling lineup. Quick question for you: I was looking up Frank "Trader" Lane yesterday. The man was pathological when it came to trades. He spent a spell as GM of the Cardinals in the 1950s, and tried to trade Stan Musial. When owner Gussie Busch found out, Lane was soon looking for another job. He worked for Charlie O. Finley for a while, but got fired quickly. So I got to wondering what the local opinion of Finley was. To the rest of us he seemed a bit of a buffoon, but he built some darn good teams. |
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| Jun-16-09 | | playground player: <Phony Benoni> I forgot Don Wert got beaned, and I just forgot Ray Oyler altogether. After him, even Eddie Brinkman was a big step up, offensively. Legend has it (you probably know more than I do) that Brinkman was a nice guy, but had an uncontrollable penchant for foul language. He used to wonder why he was never invited onto post-game shows. "S***, yeah, Norm, I hit the f****** thing, shoulda seen that c********* go..." To this day I tease my wife with the comment, "Now on the air, Eddie Brinkman's Kitchen" (when she's having some trouble out there and venting verbally). Oyler notwithstanding, everything jelled for those 1968 Tigers. Behind McLain the pitching staff was deep and solid. Most importantly, they didn't have the 1961 Yankees to beat out for the pennant! That more than anything else accounts for the difference between the Tigers' results in 1961 and 1968. |
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| Jun-16-09 | | Jim Bartle: Thanks for the box score. Not nearly as weird as I'd have thought. Northrup and Horton hitting 2-3, pitcher batting ninth. Charlie Finley: No, not a buffoon, a total jerk. He was always pulling off stuff which embarrassed his players, had no respect for them. Of course he did build an outstanding team, but everybody still hated him. I think the worst was his lead announcer, Monte Moore. The guy was a total suck-up to Finley on the air, and a terrible, boring announcer besides. Also, he was a stool-pigeon for Finley, and the players knew it. In fact the great airplane dustup of 1967 (team still in KC, the one where Harrelson got fired from the team and moved to Boston) revolved largely around Moore, and his habit of constantly ratting on the players. Great pair of headlines from the Oakland Tribune from early 70s when Finley was fighting the city of Oakland, and tennis player Margaret Court announced she was going to leave the circuit for a while: Left column: "Finley Takes It To Court"
Right column: "Court Pregnant, Out for Year." |
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| Jun-16-09 | | Deus Ex Alekhina: I think the Oakland A's of the 70's were called "the Mustache Gang" & I remember in 1967 supposedly Denny McLain was told by the mob to claim that he was injured, so to drop out of rotation & he said "I'm not injured!" So the goon stomped on his foot & said "NOW, you got injured" And this also would cast some doubt, would it not, of the legitimacy of his 31 wins the next year (also of his play in the World Series). I remember one of those 31 wins televised where the opposing team leading by one run suddenly started kicking the ball around like it was a hot potato |
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| Jun-16-09 | | Jim Bartle: Maybe you're referring to McLain's 30th over the A's: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... The A's led 5-4 going into the bottom of the ninth (Reggie 2 homers), and the Tigers scored two to win it, aided by an error by the A's Danny Cater. So McLain charged out of the dugout to celebrate the big win, rather than getting it standing on the mound. A small thing, but interesting... |
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