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Jun-05-09
 | | Phony Benoni: Willie McCovey's first game. Can't do much better than this. http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... A little Hall of Fame trivia question. How many players can you find who were elected to the Hall of Fame before the five year waiting period after retirement? I've got four right now; two you'll get immediately, and a third is easy enough if you think about it. #4 may be a challenge. |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Roberto Clemente is the only one who comes to mind.
Hey, what about MY trivia question earlier? College basketball player of the year who played for two World Series winners? Or no answers because it's too easy. McCovey's first game had everybody in the Bay Area talking: "Another Willie!" And they even moved Mays up to bat second, so McCovey and Cepeda could hit 3-4. (Cepeda in left was an adventure, though. I sat in the stands behind him one game and he turned around to talk in Spanish to fans after most pitches.) |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Great stuff in that box score:
--Cepeda 3B? That didn't last. Sitting Davenport wasn't the answer. --I'd forgotten McCovey got those four hits off Robin Roberts. --The Phillies really had a terrible lineup, except for Ashburn. Looks like the 09 Giants. |
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Jun-05-09
| | Phony Benoni: <Jim Bartle> I mentioned <Dick Groat> en passant a bit back. Wasn't that right? |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Sorry, PB, missed it. Correct, of course.
Looked at more pages of the Giants 59 season. How about this? GIANTS 1ST: Davenport walked; Alou walked [Davenport to second];
McCovey walked [Davenport to third, Alou to second]; PENA
REPLACED HOOK (PITCHING);
Hook got the hook!
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Randy Johnson yesterday: "Only 211 more to catch Cy Young." |
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Jun-05-09
| | Phony Benoni: Oh, yes, Orlando Pena. He pitched for the Tigers in the mid-1960s, and was occasionally paired with reserve catcher Orlando McFarlane. Whenever they were in the game together, it was like Magic. <Joe Koppe> was a source of frustration to me back in my trading cards days in the early 1960s. I accumulated a stack of bubble gum a foot high, but could never get an Al Kaline card. But I must have have a dozen Joe Koppes. He was so obscure that they didn't even change his picture from year to year. (Of course, Clemente is one of the four early Hall-of-Famers.) |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: "...like Magic." (hearty chuckle)
But how about Hook getting the hook after walking the first three hitters? "But Skip, I've got a no-hitter going here." |
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Jun-05-09
| | Phony Benoni: History repeats itself. Dontrelle Willis got pulled yesterday after issuing four walks and hitting a batter in the third inning, though he hadn't allowed a hit. But this game might be the ultimate in wildness:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... Note the White Sox 7th innning, where they score 11 runs on <one> hit. And the hit was a single! |
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| Jun-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Sorry to hear that about Willis. Gotta be rooting for him. And that White Sox-KC game...whoa! |
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| Jun-06-09 | | playground player: <Phony Benoni> About to wreck Tiger Stadium, are they? Well, everything else in this country is getting torn down, why should a grand old ballpark be immune? The new "Yankee Stadium," by the way, is a horror. <Jim Bartle> Orlando Cepeda playing third: well, they never did find a way to have Cepeda and McCovey in the lineup together, and they did expect Jim Davenport to hit a little better than he did. I believe he was the youngest-ever Cotton States League batting champion: so he was certainly no John Vukovich. (Let's see who remembers him!) But I think if Leo Durocher had still been managing the Giants then, he would've found a way to keep both Willie and Orlando in the lineup. After all, he went into a couple of World Series games with both Don Mueller and Dusty Rhodes in the outfield at the Polo Grounds. |
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Jun-06-09
| | Phony Benoni: Sounds ike the Giants could have used the DH. Maybe even tWo DHs. In fact, if we're going to have this abomination at all, why don't we just go totally NFL and have completely different offensive and defensive teams? It could lead to a whole new area for controversy if a manager somehow put a guy on the wrong squad. Could you imagine, say, Darryl Strawberry assigned to play defense? I can just see the headlines now: <STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOREVER> |
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| Jun-06-09 | | YouRang: <And they even moved Mays up to bat second, so McCovey and Cepeda could hit 3-4.> I dunno. If you got a Willie Mays, you bat him 3rd.
But the Giants were kinda funny about their batting order. I never understood why they had Bobby Bonds, with his 30+ homers per year, mostly batting leadoff. Sure, he could steal bases, but the occasional stolen base doesn't compare to all the RBI he lost because he batted with the bases empty so often, and otherwise batted after the pitcher. :-\ |
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| Jun-06-09 | | Jim Bartle: Strawberry Fields Forever...nice.
Yes, lots of talk about McCovey or Cepeda as a DH over the years from Giants fans. In fact, I believe Cepeda was one of the first DHs in 73. McCovey ended up playing quite a bit of left field and was not a disaster. Then again, under today's rules with free agency, either McCovey or Cepeda (or both!!) would have left on his own before too long. Bobby Bonds did hit leadoff for a while, when they had McCovey and Mays was still hitting. I think they moved him down to the power spots later on. As good as he was, especially in 73, I think Bonds was hurt by the sky-high expectations for him, after he came up in June 68 and hit a grand slam in his first game. From that point on people wanted him to be the next Mays. When he had a poor year in 74 they traded him straight up for Bobby Murcer. |
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| Jun-06-09 | | technical draw: <JB> Maybe you can help me here. I know that in English Orlando Cepeda was called the "Baby Bull". In Spanish he was called "Peruchin". Peruchin is diminutive of "Perucho" which was Cepeda's father's nickname. I can't find a Puerto Rico slang for "bull" as "perucho" nor can I find any reference to the origin of "perucho". Have you ever heard this word in your travels in SA? Thanks ...TD |
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| Jun-06-09 | | Jim Bartle: Nope, never heard "Peruchin." Cepeda was also known as "Cha Cha." |
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| Jun-06-09 | | technical draw: Thanks, JB...It's funny though that in Puerto Rico Cepeda was always known as Peruchin and NEVER as Cha Cha. |
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Jun-06-09
| | Phony Benoni: <technical draw> This may help: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org... Go to note 27, third paragraph.
And that's no Perucho. |
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| Jun-06-09 | | technical draw: Thank you <Phony Benoni>. Amazing what you can find on the internet! So "Perucho" is a corruption of "Pedro" and "Peruchin" is the dimunitive of "Perucho" That settles that. Now what am I to do with this valuable knowledge? Thanks. Technical "you can call me grandma" Draw..... |
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| Jun-06-09 | | Jim Bartle: "Now what am I to do with this valuable knowledge?"
It's <baseball> knowledge. It's an end in itself. |
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| Jun-07-09 | | playground player: Orlando Cepeda was the full-time DH for the Red Sox (I think it was 1973). I remember the Yankees were looking like world-beaters, sure to win the AL East, Murcer and Ron Blomberg on the cover of Sports Illustrated (believed by some to be the kiss of death)... and then the Red Sox came to town. I happened to be there for the game that sent the Yankees down in flames. Bases full of Red Sox, Sparky Lyle, the ace of aces, on the mound, and Orlando Cepeda at bat. Classic confrontation. Can the aging slugger still park one, when it counts? Would you believe it??? Orlando BUNTS! The whole Yankee infield went into shock, and that was the end of it. Never mind nailing the go-ahead run at the plate: they couldn't even get Cepeda limping down to first. Game, series, and season all down the drain... |
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| Jun-07-09 | | Jim Bartle: Speaking of sluggers bunting, in this great song from 1962 by Danny Kaye, Frank Howard bunts with the bases loaded! Leading to disastrous fielding by Hiller, Haller, Miller, and...Cepeda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvqO... |
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Jun-07-09
| | Phony Benoni: And now, a little digression. After all this is a chess site, and I do occasionally win a game. N.N. vs. Me, of course
<1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 bxc6> Yes, I know this has been refuted, but there is method to my madness. I have learned, over the years, that I am incapable of winning a game in which I was not busted at some point. Indeed, my opponents remind me of this every time I beat them. Entering a losing line on move four gets the worst over with early, leaving more time to swindle the opponent. <5.h3???>
Creating a fatal weakness.
<5...d6 6.d3 f5>
With White playing defensively, I decided that unsound attacking moves have been delayed long enough. <7.exf5 Bxf5 8.0-0 Nf6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Nbd2 0-0 11.Nh4 Qd7> I probably should have played 11...Be6 and let White realize that his knight on h4 is an idiot. But what can I say? I learned chess from Fred Reinfeld, and he always stressed development. <12.Qf3>
That looks silly. Let's clear things out a little.
<12...Nd5 13.c4>
And that looks positively dreadful. I spy f2!
<13...Bxh4 14.cxd5 Bg6 15.Qe2 Bxf2+ 16.Kh1 Bxe1 17.Qxe1 Bxd3 18.Qe3 Bf5 19.Qb3 c5> The pawn on d5 ain't doing me no harm. I don't even mind the hole on c6. This is not a position where strategical considerations will rule the day. <20.Nc4 Be4 21.Na5>
click for larger view
Now, of course, I want to play 21...Qxh3+. Unfortunately, White's queen on b3 is protecting the pawn for dear life. Can I chase her away? Do I need to? <21...Rf3>
Wow. I would even give this move an exclam if it weren't for the fact that my Bozo 0.5 computer assures me that 21...Rf2 is far stronger. Barf on that. In this position, one is entitled to have fun rather than sticking to best moves. <22.gxf3 Qxh3+ 23.Kg1 Bxf3 24.Qc2 Qh1+ 25.Kf2 Qg2+ 26.Ke3> Since I am required by the rules of the Annotator's Guild to include at least one variation that can be checked by a computer, I will note the pretty mate after 25.Ke1 Qg1+ 26.Kd2 Qf2+ 27.Kc3 Qd4+ 28.Kb3 Qb4#. Now it just gets plain brutal. <26...Qxc2 27.Kxf3 Rf8+ 28.Kg3 Qg6+ 29.Kh4 Rf5 30.Nc6> Finally occupying the hole, and threatening a nasty family fork on e7. Oooh, I'm scared. <30...Rh5#>
Yes, I suppose I should have posted this in <technical draw>'s Ruy Lopez Exchange Forum, but I have the funny feeling that some sort of malfunction would cause it to disappear. |
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| Jun-07-09 | | Jim Bartle: Amazing that 5.h3 can be a losing move. Lose the initiative, I can see, but worse... 21...Rf3. Great stuff.
NN should learn you can't leave your queen bishop untouched past move 20. |
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Jun-07-09
| | Phony Benoni: Well, if White hadn't played 5.h3, the whole thing with 21...Rf3 wouldn't have been possible. What do you think I'd been angling for the last 16 moves? (And maybe I'd better add a :) to that, lest you think I'm serious for a change.) |
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