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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 464 OF 775 ·
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Apr-11-22
 | | jnpope: <jessicafischerqueen: I like <z's> idea here: <I suggest trying to follow the form used in the contemporaneous English language press as much as possible. (Which is at least somewhat helpful when doing research)>> Which seems like a reasonable Anglo-centric approach for solving "square peg/round hole" problems with names, given that the PGN spec is also Anglo-centric. |
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Apr-11-22
| | jnpope: It would be appreciated if super-user could update the following player names for: Grant, Birch, Steegmann, Ross, and MacTarget. See Zukertort games at the top of my profile/problems list (especially for Grant and Birch who are in the wrong player buckets): User: jnpope Thanks! |
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| Apr-11-22 | | Alan McGowan: Re Zukertort simul, Glasgow 1873 for <jnpope>. The 1869 AGM of Glasgow CC had T.K. Ross and Alexander Ross. The 1879 list of members had only Alexander Ross. |
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Apr-11-22
| | jnpope: The only active Ross given in the Glasgow Weekly Herald scrapbook (1873-1878?) appears to be "A. Ross", but I will go through the entire scrapbook now just to be certain. |
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| Apr-11-22 | | Z free or die: <jn> good question about indexing. Did you see the mention of how to index Spanish names in the <CB> article? . |
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| Apr-11-22 | | Z free or die: Compare these two pages:
https://sa.wikipedia.org/wiki/व |
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| Apr-11-22 | | Z free or die: Compare these two pages:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/... https://sa.wikipedia.org/wiki/व |
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| Apr-11-22 | | Z free or die: (Hey <beatgiant>, why does <CG> behave so differently depending on the order to the two links? I used utf-8 to form the Sanskrit link) |
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Apr-12-22
 | | beatgiant: <Z free or die> Thanks for pointing out that bug. I'll get it working correctly in the near future. |
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Apr-12-22
 | | MissScarlett: <Not sure if the PGN spec covers cultures without a family name, i.e. "Viswanathan Anand" is basically a polynym with no surname.> I've always thought Viswanathan was a family name. Now you tell me... <I suggest trying to follow the form used in the contemporaneous English language press as much as possible.> So how about <Mickey Adams> and <Bobby Fischer>? In Fischer's case, it would help to differentiate him from Robert Fisher. |
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| Apr-12-22 | | Z free or die: <So how about <Mickey Adams> and <Bobby Fischer>? In Fischer's case, it would help to differentiate him from Robert Fisher.> Personally, I could go with those, though it's a bit informal (and so won't be in Z-base). In the words of Vishy, about Vishy, "I'm cool with that". |
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| Apr-12-22 | | Z free or die: <beat> no problem, glad to see you're on it. |
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| Apr-12-22 | | Z free or die: As for the PGN standard, it's really an inadequate standard as first formulated (e.g. no GameSite tag). Today's PGN is really a defacto standard, largely influenced by various contributors for various reasons (e.g. ChessBase, DGT, TWIC, etc.) Our use of <Source> tags is in essence, another contribution to the standard. Caution is advised. Again, the issue to accommodating non-English names is a bit of square peg into a round hole (or is it the other way round?). Pragmatism, and commonsense, is advised, as always. That, and following FIDE's standard. The PGN name is formulated to allow computer programs to easily sort a player list alphabetically, as well as to allow your eye to see who is who quickly when scanning the xtab. If the player is listed as <Ding Liren> on FIDE, then there isn't a problem using that name in the PGN. He will be sorted with the family name Ding and all is well. The "no comma" case is easy when the family name goes first. The comma case <Ding, Liren> is good too, and familiar. Sorts the same. Now, when I tried to find a non-Westernized Chinese name on FIDE, the top-100 doesn't have any! https://ratings.fide.com/rankings.p... I was a little surprised, but as I said, both cases are OK. Just try to follow FIDE. |
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| Apr-12-22 | | Z free or die: RE: Sorting FIDE names
The FIDE name is formatted for easy sorting, in the style most of us are used to. But as the <ChessBase> article noted - Cuban names are sorted by the matronym in a phonebook. But not by FIDE - use the advanced search, pick Cuba for the country, and sort by names: https://ratings.fide.com/
Likely a Cuban would think the names mis-sorted, if it appeared in a phonebook. But they're probably well acquainted with this convention in general, I'd wager. |
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| Apr-12-22 | | Z free or die: <Which seems like a reasonable Anglo-centric approach for solving "square peg/round hole" problems with names, given that the PGN spec is also Anglo-centric.> The British invented "Anglo". |
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Apr-12-22
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Jnpope.
Go with Frazer.
It is the name on the Edinburgh Clubs roll of honour dated from 1822-1922. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... Also see:
https://www.edinburghchessclub.co.u... The Club Champion is allowed to 'touch' Frazer medal and then it is locked away again! |
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Apr-12-22
| | jnpope: <Sally Simpson>, very interesting. <Alan McGowan> had pretty much convinced me to stick with Fraser (see James Cunningham Fraser (kibitz #1)) as his birth record and death record give Fraser. However, it really looks like he played under the name Frazer. And even though he was the elder Fraser, it appears that he had started his chess career after George Brunton Fraser, so he used Frazer to limit confusion between the two (just a theory). |
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Apr-12-22
| | MissScarlett: Zally Zimpzon zuckz. Who cares what the stupid wallchart says. |
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| Apr-12-22 | | nok: <I've always thought Viswanathan was a family name.> It's his father's name, but writing it in full is considered a gaffe. Correct is <V. Anand> D Gukesh (kibitz #18) |
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Apr-12-22
| | MissScarlett: <It's his father's name, but writing it in full is considered a gaffe.> How you know, paleface? |
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Apr-12-22
| | jnpope: For Tamil names, <when written in full (for example, on a passport), the initial is expanded as last name.> (from the Wiki page on Indian surnames). If I'm understanding this correctly, in a passport database "Viswanathan" would appear in the last name field. So Tamil is treated like a Chinese name even though they do not have a traditional surnames? I was assuming he would be treated like someone who has a legal mononymous name, like the singer Cher or magician Teller, even though his name is a polynym. |
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| Apr-13-22 | | nok: <If I'm understanding this correctly, in a passport database "Viswanathan" would appear in the last name field.> To me it means that the initial precedes the name, but in passports the patronym follows the name. Reason? Prolly an arbitrary decision by a Brit some 150 years ago, like driving on the left. |
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| Apr-13-22 | | Z free or die: <MissScarlett: Zally Zimpzon zuckz. Who cares what the stupid wallchart says.> Z-abuse must end! |
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Apr-13-22
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Z-abuse must end!> Good message <z> for cg.com any time, any place if you ask me.
Question: what would you do if your name didn't sound like "the"?
Then you'd be in real trouble amirite! |
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Apr-13-22
 | | Tabanus: <jess> Game Collection: 2nd British Chess Federation championship 1905 should be Atkins won, no playoff, Southport, 14-26 August. |
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