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| Feb-03-03 |
| TheOppositeOfChess: is there some dreadful reason I'm missing why the black knight should not capture the pawn on e4? pushing the pawn to d5 would protect the peice nicely... |
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Feb-03-03
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| Sneaky: That's a good question. The position has been reached a few times in the database according to "similar games" but nobody has ever dared to take that e4 pawn. IN GENERAL... we all probably agree that it's bad practice to go pawn-hunting in the opening when you're lagging in development. And so I could imagine that this could be a valid gambit--but it's hard for me to see exactly how White would prevent Black from consolidating. After all, it is a very important pawn! |
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Feb-03-03
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| Sneaky: Just to clarify, we're talking about: 9...Nxe4 |
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| Feb-03-03 |
| judokausa1: I think the reason the pawn on e4 is that black is lagging in development. Examine what the move does in this open position when development is vital. From blacks view it is a central pawn so worth a tempo, perhaps. In whites view black development is suddenly looking VERY backwards AND, most importantly, he has removed a key piece that has been blocking the e-file-his own pawn! I would think that while d5 looks nice it fails to address these two key issues. It seems to me after this a sac on d6 makes black king begin to look like a trussed turkey ready for the oven. I would be very VERY weary of any pawn grabbing when e6 and d6 are still looking a bit flimsy in the siclian. After f3 how does black deal with the attack on e6? |
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Feb-04-03
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| Honza Cervenka: I tried to play it as white a tempo against Fritz (Computer had 15 sec. on move) and I won without difficulties - 9...Nxe4 10.Qe2 Nc5 11.Bd5 Be7 12.Bxb7 Nxb7 13.f5 e5 14.Nd5 Nc5 15.Qg4 Bf8 16.Re1 Nbd7 17.Bg5 Qc8 18.Ne6 Nxe6 19.fxe6 Nc5 20.exf7+ Kxf7 21.Qf3+ Kg6 22.Be3 e4 23.Qg3+ Kf7 24.Nb6 Qb7 25.Nxa8 Qxa8 26.Bxc5 dxc5 27.Qf4+ Kg8 28.Rxe4 h6 29.Rf1 etc. Of course, there are certainly many possibilities to improve black's play (as well as white's), but this line illustrates well that white's initiative is very dangerous after 9...Nxe4. |
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| Feb-04-03 |
| TheOppositeOfChess: Whatever the answer may be, I'm sure deep within the insane laboratory which is the mind of Bobby Fischer, he would of shreiked with sadistic glee if Olicio took the pawn. |
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| Feb-05-03 |
| ughaibu: The position after move 20 is discussed in a book by, I think, Stean. He relates a story about a blitz game between Fischer and Stein in which Fischer in a similar position said "this is the kind of position I get in my dreams". |
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| Feb-06-03 |
| Argull: In ECO exists this , 9-... b4,10-Na4 Nxe4 11-Re1 Nd7 12-f5 e5 13-Ne6 fxe6 14-Qh5 (Banas-Jankovec Ussr championship 1973) g6 with complicated position. And there is a line with Bxe4 and in that line Eco says = |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| drukenknight: what is wrong w/ 9...Qb6? |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| pawntificator: DK!! How ya been?
9...Qb6 isn't that bad but then you have 10Be3 and if the queen doesn't move again you could lose a pawn. |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| ughaibu: Probably nothing but what does it achieve? After Be3 there'll be a constsnt threat of Nf5. |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| drukenknight: 9...Qb6 10 Be3 Ng4
back to you.
****
I been busypawntiff, actually didn't look at chess for about 2 weeks. Two whole freakin weeks! can you believe it? Taking time off is important, dont ever forget that. |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| pawntificator: Yeah, I've had a little time off here and there...except for my gameknot.com games. Time stops for no man. But I haven't been posting as much on here. I been "lurking." 9...Qb6 10 Be3 Ng4 loses the knight to the queen! But 10...Nxe4 or Bxe4 could be interesting. |
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| Feb-07-03 |
| drukenknight: ooops. Yeah just take w/ the N 10...Nxe4 |
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May-29-04
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| tpstar: In the Sicilian Fischer-Sozin, after 6. Bc4 e6 White often retreats 7. Bb3 to avoid ... b5 with tempo, but also any fork tricks with ... Nxe4. Instead 7. Qe2 allows 7 ... b5 8. Bb3 Bb7 and the Pe4 is tempting but definitely risky for Black to swipe. tpstar0-kk_camb (Yahoo 5/27/04): 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bc4 e6 7. Qe2 (7. Bb3) b5 8. Bb3 Bb7 9. f3!? (9. 0-0) Be7 10. 0-0 0-0 11. Be3 Nbd7 12. Rad1 d5!? 13. ed ed 14. Nf5 Nc5 15. Nxd5! Nxd5 16. Bxd5 Qc7 (16 ... Bxd5 17. Rxd5 Qxd5?? 18. Nxe7+) 17. Bxb7 Nxb7 18. Kh1 Bf6 19. Bd4 Rfe8 20. Qf2 Bxd4 21. Qxd4 Re5 22. Qg4 g6 23. Rd7! Qc6 (23 ... Qxd7 24. Nh6+) 24. Nh6+ Kg7 25. Rxf7+ Kxh6 26. Qf4+ 1-0 (26 ... Rg5 27. h4 Qc5 28. hxg5+ Qxg5 29. Rxh7+!). |
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| Jan-03-05 |
| Alaric: can anyone tell me what happens if Black plays 8 ... b4 9. N-moves Nxe4, doesn't that win a pawn or is there a trap waiting for Black |
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Jan-03-05
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| Chessical: <Alaric> See Fischer vs Tal, 1959, Black gets very good attacking chances for the pawn. |
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| Jan-03-05 |
| WMD: According to Mihail Golubev
in his book, The Siclian Sozin:
'8.f4 Fischer played this at the beginning of his career, but he later cast doubt on this move when playing Black against Byrne (1967). Now 8.f4 is obsolete.' R Byrne vs Fischer, 1967
After 8...b4 9.Na4 Nxe4 Golubev calls it unclear and gives sample lines as: 10.0-0 d5?! 11.f5!
10...Bb7 11.f5 and 11.Be3 are 'dangerous'.
10...Nf6!? 'might be worth investigating'.
10...g6 11.f5 gxf5 12.Nxf5 (Fischer vs Tal, 1959) 'and now 12...Bb7 or 12...d5 (Fischer)'. |
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| Jan-06-05 |
| Alaric: can't white win the pawn back or get some compensation for it? |
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| Nov-27-05 |
| chessnewbie: can someone explain why black resigned? i'm a bit slow and i don't get it. |
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| Nov-27-05 |
| you vs yourself: <chessnewbie> After 23...Qxe7 24.Qd5+ and white wins the rook on c6. |
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| Nov-27-05 |
| alicefujimori: There is something about this line that people at this post seems to have missed, and I will point it out for interest sake. Daniel King, in his book on "Winning with the Najdorf", actually recommended Black to grab the e-pawn on move 9. Although he didn't give any analysis on the possible outcomes after the capture, the fact that 10 years after this game was played Fischer actually preferred 9.Re1! was enough proof to suggest that 9...Nxe4 might actually be a good move. (See Fischer-Rubinetti, 1970) |
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Nov-27-05
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| midknightblue: <WMD> actually Gobulev gives 9...Nxe4 a ?! and recommends 8...Bb7 instead. He also provides excellent analysis showing the problems with all of blacks options on move 10...
8. b4 9. Na4 Nxe4 10. Re1. Here black's choices of Nf6, Nc5, d5 and Bb7 are all bad.
The problem is that if these positions are good for white, then white must get to the position - but current theory seems to suggest that vs the scheveningen white should play the keres attack instead. Likewise, vs the Najdorf, the Bg5 lines may be preferable (although this one is more a matter of opinion i guess). |
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| Jan-27-06 |
| Underworld: 9.f4 Nxe4 10.f5 would be my choosing. |
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Apr-13-07
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| vonKrolock: <21. a1> Bronstein: "How come You thought of that move?"
Fischer: "Tal moves his Rooks back and forth, why can't I do the same?" |
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