|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
Nov-02-08
 |
| gambitfan: 
click for larger view72  b5 1-0
72...  d6 black enters the "magical square" of  h4 73 h5 e7 74 h6 f6 75 h7 g7
h was able to reach quietly h7 thanks to f4 blocking black e3  ow white h7 is attacked by black g7
76 d3 white d3 protects h7 and on the other hand blocks the progression of black d4 which might be wanting to queen ! d3 blocking black d4 "frees" white to help his queening d4 makes it difficult for black e3 to control the queening square h8 ! d4 makes e3 a "wrong"
If e3 wants to control h8 to prevent h7 from queening, it needs no less than 4 moves ! 76... d2 idea : d2-b4-e7-f6 to control h8 !
77 e2 b4 78 f3 e7 79 e4 f6 80 f5
ow white is in touch with black ...
|
 |
Jul-19-09
 |
| lost in space: <gambitfan>, as white I would play Ke2, Kf3 and than g3-g4. The 3 pawns can not be stopped. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: <KasparovFan123: I think that deep blue made a number of simple mistakes that cost it the game. > Really? I thought this was a tough game, and the computer defended well. It wasn't obvious to me that Kasparov was going to win. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| peteor: I don't like deep blue's 21. Qc8 ... is Rd8 not the better move? |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| An Englishman: Good Evening: I once played White in a casual game where my e-pawn did not move during the entire affair (45 moves). Here, White's e-pawn doesn't move until 61.exf3. Any game at least as long as this where the e-pawn doesn't move at all? |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: <peteor: I don't like deep blue's 21. Qc8 ... is Rd8 not the better move?> Well, Kasparov can put the queen on f5, the bishop on e4, and h7 is going to drop. The computer must have felt this needed to be prevented. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| Garech: <Pi Guy: From moves 33 to 47, it seemed that all Deep Blue wanted to do was to exchange queens, but from moves 51 on, it seemed that Deep Blue was avoiding the exchange of queens. Can anyone make sense of this?> Yes, it seems strange as this isn't how computers "think" usually. Some would say (Kasparov included) that Deep Blue had some human assistance during this game. The desire to exchange queens / keep queens on the board is a very human approach to chess. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| engineerX: <Garech:Some would say (Kasparov included) that Deep Blue had some human assistance during this game.> I have not read such a claim by Kasparov and I don't think he has made one. You should provide a link or a quote, else it is only _your_ opinion. I think DB played the inferior endgame quite naturally for a computer. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| Steven87: I'd asked one of my comp sci profs about constructing a chess ai not 5 days ago, and he'd then mentioned Kasparov's claims as well. That not withstanding, computers will always do exactly what their programmers tell them too, and if a position can be evaluated as being favourable with or without queens when the opposite is currently true, it's entirely plausible for Deep Blue to react the way it did. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| tivrfoa: great pun, and game =) |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| Big Easy: Kaspy plays with such precision in the endgame. He avoids the queen exchange and then wins a pawn, then a second, and then forces a queen exchange. Very nice. |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| kevin86: It looks like Blue blew a gasket. lol |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| venkatesh920: <Pi Guy> Deep Blue wanted to exchange queens earlier so that it would be easier to draw... but later it didn't want to because exchanging queens would lead to defeat as GK has 3 pawns n a bishop whereas DB has only a pawn n a bishop.. |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| WhiteRook48: basically by 70 Qd8+ black is lost |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| CoryLetain: Fischer claims they turned down the strength of the machine after Deep Blue romped GK in the first game. |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| Eisenheim: i'm impressed with 19 b4. what a great non-obvious diversion. and <CoryLetain> can we ever take any of Fischer's rantings seriously? |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| drleper: <engineerX: I have not read such a claim by Kasparov and I don't think he has made one. You should provide a link or a quote, else it is only _your_ opinion.> During the match Kasparov wanted to see computer printouts of Deep Blue's memory to make sure it was thinking for itself, he believed certain moves were human assisted. IBM refused to supply the data, and even disassembled the machine afterwards, so we'll never really know. There's a documentary out there somewhere, Joel Benjamin is in it as he was the guy training Deep Blue to improve its play in closed positions. |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| SirChrislov: Sir<drleper>, yes, the documentary is 'Game Over: Man vs. Machine' In the conference room after game#2:
Reporter: forgive me if I'm speaking out of term Mr. Kasparov, but are you saying there might have been some sort of "human" intervention in this game? Kasparov: well, it reminds me of Maradona in goal against England 1986, he said it was the "hand of God". and the room roars with laughs |
|
Sep-30-09
 |
| Billy Ray Valentine: Another great example of the power of the Q+opposite colored Bishop attack in the middle game... |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| zatara: <Pi Guy: From moves 33 to 47, it seemed that all Deep Blue wanted to do was to exchange queens, but from moves 51 on, it seemed that Deep Blue was avoiding the exchange of queens. Can anyone make sense of this?> You forgot that from move 33-47 kasparov didn't want the exchange but he did from 51 on..:) |
|
| Sep-30-09 |
| pericles of athens: goodness me what a dazzling queen attack. jeez louise. |
|
Oct-01-09
 |
| RandomVisitor: 3 minutes per move:
Garry Kasparov - Deep Blue (Computer)
[A49]
Match Philadelphia (USA) (2), 1996
[Rybka 3 ]
1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 e6 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 Nc6 5.0-0 Nf6 6.c4 dxc4 7.Ne5 Bd7 8.Na3 cxd4 9.Naxc4 Bc5 10.Qb3 0-0 11.Qxb7 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 Rb8 13.Qf3 Bd6 14.Nc6 Bxc6 15.Qxc6 e5 16.Rb1 last book move 16...Rb6 0.17/19
17.Qa4 0.03/17 Qb8= 0.17/17
[Rybka 3 : 17...Qe7 18.Bg5 Rfb8 19.Rfc1 Ba3 20.Rc6 Bxb2 21.Qc2 Rxc6 22.Qxc6 Qd8 23.Bxf6 gxf6 24.Be4 h5 25.Bd3 Kg7 26.Qe4 Qh8= 0.03/17 ] 18.Bg5= 0.00/19
[Rybka 3 : 18.b3 Rc8 19.a3 Rb5 20.Bd2 Rbc5 21.b4 Rc2 22.Rfd1 R8c7= 0.17/17 ] 18...Be7 0.28/18
[Rybka 3 : 18...Ne8 19.Qc2 h6 20.Bd2 Nf6 21.b3 Ra6 22.Rfc1 Rd8 23.a4 Ba3 24.Rd1 Bb4 25.Bxb4 Qxb4 26.Rdc1 Re8= 0.00/19 ] 19.b4 0.20/16 Bxb4 0.28/21
[Rybka 3 : 19...Nd5 20.Bxe7 Nxe7 21.Rfc1 Rb5 22.Rc4 Nd5 23.Bxd5 Rxd5 24.Rbc1 e4 25.a3 h6 26.Qc6 Qd8 27.Rd1 f5= 0.20/16 ] 20.Bxf6 0.28/20 gxf6 0.28/19
21.Qd7 0.13/17 Qc8 0.40/22
[Rybka 3 : 21...h5 22.Qf5 Qc8 23.Qxh5 Kg7 24.a3 Bxa3 25.Ra1 Rh8 26.Qf3 Bd6 27.Rxa7 Qe6 28.h4 Rb2 29.Rc1 f5 30.Qd3 Rb3 31.Qd2= 0.13/17 ] 22.Qxa7 0.30/20 Rb8 0.46/18
[Rybka 3 : 22...Ra6 23.Qb7 Qxb7 24.Bxb7 Rb6 25.Be4 Rfb8 26.a4 h6 27.Rfc1 Bc3 28.Kg2 Kf8 29.Rxb6 Rxb6 30.Rb1 Rxb1 31.Bxb1 Ke7 32.Kf3 Be1 33.Ke4 Bxf2 34.a5 Kd6 35.Kf5 Bg1 0.30/20 ] 23.Qa4 0.46/19 Bc3 1.04/20
[Rybka 3 : 23...Qc5 24.Be4 Rfd8 25.Qa6 Kg7 26.Qd3 Qa7 27.Qf3 Qxa2 28.Qf5 Rh8 29.Qg4+ Kf8 30.Rfc1 h5 0.46/19 ] 24.Rxb8 0.97/19 Qxb8 1.06/18
25.Be4 0.63/18
[Rybka 3 : 25.Qc6 Kg7 26.Qf3 Qc8 27.Qh5 h6 28.Be4 Re8 1.06/18 ] 25...Qc7 1.00/18
[Rybka 3 : 25...Qc8 26.Qc2 h5 27.Rb1 h4 28.Qd3 Qg4 29.h3 Qg5 30.Kg2 Kg7 31.Rb7 Ba5 32.g4 Qf4 33.Bd5 Be1 0.63/18 ] 26.Qa6 0.65/22
[Rybka 3 : 26.Rb1 Rb8 27.Rxb8+ Qxb8 28.Qd7 Qf8 29.a4 Bb4 30.Qh3 Qg7 31.Kg2 Qh8 32.Qd7 Kg7 33.f4 h6 34.Qg4+ Kf8 1.00/18 ] 26...Kg7 0.65/21
27.Qd3 0.65/19 Rb8 0.65/21
28.Bxh7 0.65/21 Rb2 0.65/21
29.Be4 0.65/17 Rxa2 0.65/20
30.h4 0.65/18 Qc8 0.65/21
31.Qf3 0.65/19 Ra1 0.65/22
32.Rxa1 0.65/25 Bxa1 0.65/23
33.Qh5 0.65/23 Qh8 0.66/25
34.Qg4+ 0.66/25 Kf8 0.66/23
35.Qc8+ 0.65/24 Kg7 0.65/22
36.Qg4  0.00/34
[Rybka 3 : 36.Qf5 Qh6 37.Kg2 Qg6 38.Qf3 Qh6 39.Qg4+ Kf8 40.Qf5 Bc3 41.Bd3 Bd2 42.Qc8+ Kg7 43.Qg4+ 0.65/22 ] 36...Kf8 0.65/22
37.Bd5 0.63/21 Ke7 0.69/21 |
|
Oct-01-09
|
| RandomVisitor: continued:
38.Bc6 0.65/22 Kf8 0.65/21
39.Bd5= 0.00/30
[Rybka 3 : 39.Kh2 Bc3 40.Bd5 0.65/21 ]
39...Ke7 0.68/20
40.Qf3 0.68/22 Bc3 0.69/20
41.Bc4 0.68/21 Qc8 1.16/22
[Rybka 3 : 41...Kf8 42.Qa8+ Kg7 43.Qxh8+ Kxh8 44.Bxf7 Kg7 45.Be6 Kh6 46.Bf5 Kh5 47.Kg2 Be1 48.Be4 Bd2 49.Kh3 Kh6 50.g4 Kg7 51.Kg2 0.68/21 ] 42.Qd5 1.16/24 Qe6 1.16/23
43.Qb5 1.16/22 Qd7 1.16/23
44.Qc5+ 1.16/22 Qd6 1.16/20
45.Qa7+ 1.16/21 Qd7 1.16/20
46.Qa8 0.93/20 Qc7 1.03/19
47.Qa3+ 0.92/23 Qd6 0.92/22
48.Qa2 0.92/21 f5 0.92/20
49.Bxf7 0.92/19 e4 0.92/20
50.Bh5 0.92/18 Qf6 1.04/20
51.Qa3+ 1.04/21 Kd7 1.04/20
52.Qa7+ 1.04/19 Kd8 1.08/18
53.Qb8+ 0.86/18 Kd7  1.45/21
[Rybka 3 : 53...Ke7 54.Qc8 Be1 55.Qe8+ Kd6 56.Qb8+ Ke7 57.Kg2 Bc3 0.86/18 ] 54.Be8+ 1.45/19 Ke7 1.45/19
55.Bb5 1.30/17 Bd2 1.75/21
[Rybka 3 : 55...Kf7 56.h5 Kg7 57.Qc7+ Kh6 58.Qf4+ Kg7 59.Kg2 Bb4 60.h6+ Kh8 61.Bd7 Bd6 62.Qxf5 Qxf5 63.Bxf5 e3 64.fxe3 dxe3 65.Kf3 Be7 66.h7 Bg5 67.Ke4 Kg7 68.g4 Kh8 1.30/17 ] 56.Qc7+ 1.75/22 Kf8 1.75/21
57.Bc4 1.66/19 Bc3 2.26/16
[Rybka 3 : 57...Bh6 58.Kg2 f4 59.Qb8+ Ke7 60.Qb7+ Kd6 61.Qxe4 fxg3 62.fxg3 Be3 63.Qd5+ Ke7 64.Qb7+ Kf8 65.Qc8+ Ke7 66.Qc7+ Kf8 1.66/19 ] 58.Kg2 1.76/18 Be1 3.06/18
[Rybka 3 : 58...f4 59.Qc8+ Ke7 60.Qb7+ Kd6 1.76/18 ] 59.Kf1 2.12/19
[Rybka 3 : 59.h5 Bd2 60.f4 exf3+ 61.exf3 Bh6 62.f4 Ke8 63.Bb5+ Kf8 64.Qc8+ Kg7 65.Bc4 Qf8 66.Qd7+ Kh8 67.Qxd4+ Bg7 68.Qd5 Qc8 69.Bd3 Bf8 70.Bxf5 Qc5 71.Qd7 Qe7 72.Qd4+ Qg7 73.Qd5 Qg8 3.06/18 ] 59...Bc3 2.74/18
60.f4 2.49/17 exf3 2.74/20
61.exf3 2.44/18 Bd2 3.05/20
62.f4 2.74/19 Ke8 3.83/20
[Rybka 3 : 62...Be3 63.Qd7 d3 64.Bxd3 Bb6 65.Kg2 Qf7 66.Qc8+ Ke7 67.Bxf5 Qd5+ 68.Kh2 Qa2+ 69.Kh3 Qd5 70.h5 Bd8 71.Qc2 Kf6 72.Kg4 Kg7 73.Qc3+ Kf7 74.Qe1 Qd6 75.Kh3 2.74/19 ] 63.Qc8+ 3.37/19 Ke7 3.37/18
64.Qc5+ 2.97/18 Kd8 3.27/20
65.Bd3 3.17/18 Be3 3.27/23
66.Qxf5 3.27/21 Qc6 4.09/21
67.Qf8+ 4.09/19 Kc7 3.92/19
68.Qe7+ 3.52/17 Kc8? 5.09/22
[Rybka 3 : 68...Kb8 69.Be4 Qb5+ 70.Kg2 Kc8 71.Bf3 Qb2+ 72.Kh3 Qb6 73.h5 d3 74.Qe8+ Kc7 75.Qe5+ Kd8 76.Qd5+ Ke8 77.Qxd3 Bf2 78.Kg2 Bd4 79.h6 3.52/17 ] 69.Bf5+ 5.09/24 Kb8 5.09/22
70.Qd8+ 5.09/23 Kb7 5.12/21
71.Qd7+ 4.72/22 Qxd7 5.12/24
72.Bxd7 5.12/21 Kc7 5.12/21
73.Bb5 5.12/21 1-0 |
|
Oct-01-09
|
| RandomVisitor: Between moves 18-23 black missed many opportunities to equalize and simply did not understand how to play positional chess. Kasparov demonstrates that he is, well, a machine, against weak and inconsistent play. |
|
| Oct-25-09 |
| Garech: <engineerX: Garech:Some would say (Kasparov included) that Deep Blue had some human assistance during this game. I have not read such a claim by Kasparov and I don't think he has made one. You should provide a link or a quote, else it is only _your_ opinion.> Sorry yes you're right I should have given a quote. I believe it was this match when Kasparov was suspicious of DB's "...creative pawn sacrifice(s)..." that very much followed the trend then in vogue for contemporary theory, and very much did not follow the trend for then then-state-of-the-art engines. He definitely said this of one of his computer opponents and I'm almost 100% sure it was DB. In any case the implication was that he was playing against not simply a top-level engine, but a top-level engine in combination with a GM or GMs working together. These suspicions were strengthened because IBM wouldn't allow anyone into the area where the computer moves were coming from, if I remember correctly. |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
