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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
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| Sep-04-13 | | Nick46: Indeed, if getting 31. Rxg6+ is all we are asked to do then today's POTD is a lot easier than yesterday's. Who's complaining? |
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| Sep-04-13 | | cocker: I agree with <Check It Out> and <devere>. |
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Sep-04-13
 | | HeMateMe: I want to hear more about bar chess. Unofficial ratings? |
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| Sep-04-13 | | morfishine: I've seen this game but the position still demands accuracy: After 31.Rxg6+ hxg6 32.h7+ Kh8 33.Qf6+ Kxh7 34.Qxf7+Kh8 we are here:
click for larger view
Tempting is 35.Ng5 or 35.Bg5, but what seals the deal is <35.Qxg6> and Black no longer has h5 at his disposal [ie: Both 35.Ng5 & 35.Bg5 are met by 35...Qd1+ followed by 36...Qh5+] *****
PM: Digressing from the actual game, Kasparov vs Short contests are some of the most entertaining and exciting to watch ***** |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Jausch46 : 35. Qf6+ looks better. Then if Kh7, 36. Ng5+; if Kg8, Qxg6 with check.> 35. Qf6+ Kh7 36. Ng5+ Kh6 and white's discovered check isn't of much use. Black king can move back and forth between h6 and h7. To me, 35. Qxg6 looks best. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | bubuli55: Kasparov made it easy. The only move for White. 31. Rxg6+ and the rest is authematic. 35. Qxg6 is also authematic to ward off evil repetitions. Bg5 follows for the win. The hard part is making the dough. The easy part is eating the ... Something like that :) |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Mikhail Tal fan: can someone please explain to me what's the point of 23.Qb1 ? thanks in advance |
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| Sep-04-13 | | mistreaver: Wednsday. White to play. Medium/Easy. 31.?
I have seen this game in Tibor Karoly's book "Kasparov's fighting chess". Unfortunatelly,
reading on toillet without the board doesn't help in remembering all the details, i know that Short has
made a mistake at one moment with Qxc2 and Kasparov sacrificed on g6. I wonder if this was the moment.
31 Rxg6+ hxg6 (what else?)
32 h7+ Kh8
33 Qf6+ Kxh7
34 Qxf7+ Kh8
And i don't know, white should be winning here, the winning move is probably just
35 Qxg6 or maybe even better
35 Bg5
Time to check and see.
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Yeah as <morfishine> has pointed out, 35 Bg5 and 35 Ng5 are both innacurate because of Qd1-Qh5 with prepetual.
However there is one nice computer generated line:
35 Qf6+ Kh7
36 Ng5+ Kh6 (else Qf7 and Qh7 mate)
37 Ne4+ Kh7
38 Qf7+ Kh8
39 Nf6
and knight covers h5 from f6.
<morfishine:PM: Digressing from the actual game, Kasparov vs Short contests are some of the most entertaining and exciting to watch>
I couldn't agree more, i found their 1993 match very fascinating, and altough many think Short played badly and that the match was onesided, i think they should remember that Garry was a bit lucky, since his opponent flagged in the winning position in the very first game, and also in many of his white games he had winning positions in the 6. Bc4 Nbd7 Najdorf. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Dr. Funkenstein: Bartimaeus, I had a similar line to Jausch46 with 31. Rxg6+ hxg6 32. h7+ Kh8 33. Qf6+ Kxh7 34. Qxf7+ Kh8 35. Qf6+ Kh7 (Kg8 36. Qxg6+ Kh8 37. Bg5) 36. Ng5+ Kh6 37. Qf7 as there's no perpetual thanks to Nh3+ and I couldn't see how the black king will escape. The simpler 35. Qxg6 or Mistreaver's harder to find computer line are clearly better though |
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| Sep-04-13 | | gofer: As white has to avoid the perpetual checks on d1 and h5 Gary might play... <31 Rxg6+ hxg6>
<32 h7+ Kh8>
<33 Qf6+ Kxh7>
<34 Qxf7+ Kh8>
<35 Qxg6 ...>
click for larger viewThe black knight and king are stuck.
The rook cannot leave the back rank...
35 ... Rxc3
36 Qe8+ Kh7
37 Ng5+ mating
but moving to either a8 or b8 is pointless. So that just leaves Queen and pawn moves, neither of which will stop g4 winning the knight and the game... ~~~
Yep... |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Refused: <Bartimaeus: White has built up a siege on the Black king with nowhere for him to go. If the Knight on f5 were absent, then it would be a mate in 2 on g7. However trying to remove this Knight will result in loss of tempo. Seems better to try a break through to the King and Rxg6+ seems appropriate for this.
31. Rxg6+ hxg6 (Kh8 Qf6+ followed by mate next) 32. h7+ Kh8 33. Qf6+ Kxh7 (Ng7? Qxg7#) 34. Qxf7+ Kh8 35. Bg5 threatening mate on f6 next> I think you have a problem in that line.
36...Qd1+ 37.Kh2 Qh5+
Black has at least a perpetual with Qd1+ and Qh5+ here, and he can spend some quality time to calculate if 38...Qh7 is any good. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | dufferps: Even after reading comments by mistreaver and others, I still don't see a forced win for white. There are more variations than I can analyze. One that led me to an impasse is:
31.Rxcg6+ hxg6, 32.h7+ Kh8, 33.Qf6+ Kh7, 34.Qxf7+ Kh8, 35.Qxg6 Qd1+ 36.Kh2 Qd3. Then???? White can check perpetually, but he can't force a checkmate that I can see.
Where could he have played better? I'm sure a better move must be there, and Kasparov would have found it, but I can't. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | patzer2: <Bartimaeus: <Jausch46 : 35. Qf6+ looks better. Then if Kh7, 36. Ng5+; if Kg8, Qxg6 with check.>
35. Qf6+ Kh7 36. Ng5+ Kh6 and white's discovered check isn't of much use. Black king can move back and forth between h6 and h7. To me, 35. Qxg6 looks best.> After 31. Rxg6+ hxg6 32. h7+ Kh8 33. Qf6+ Kxh7 34. Qxf7+ Kh8 35. Qf6+ Kh7 36. Ng5+ Kh6 (position below) 
click for larger viewWhite has the very useful discovered check 37. Ne4+! (position below) 
click for larger viewWhite's mating attack is unstoppable after 37...Kh7 38. Qf7+ Kh8 (38... Ng7 39. Nf6+ Kh8 40. Bh6 Qd1+ 41. Kh2  ) 39. Nf6 Ng7 (39... Qd1+ 40. Kh2 Ng7 41. Bh6 ) 40. Bh6 . P.S.: Though White wins with a bit of difficulty after 35. Qf6+!, I also think 35. Qxg6! is the better choice because it reduces the calculations in an already long variation. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Dr. Funkenstein> I concur 37. Qf7 looks good though black can try Qd1+ followed by Rh8 to fight a bit but overall this line looks good for white. <Refused> I had spotted that quite early. I think you've overlooked my post just below the one which you've highlighted in which i pointed out the perpetual on d1-h5 and the strength of Qg6. :) <dufferps> 37. Bg5 threatening mate with Bf6+ looks good enough to me. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | Bartimaeus: <patzer2> Yes, progress can be made post 35. Qf6+. That was insufficient analysis on my part. Your line above and <Dr. Funkenstein>'s are enough indicators to suggest that its a pretty good move sufficient to win though i preferred 35. Qxg6 because we minimize Black's counterplay with a relatively easier and winning endgame. |
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| Sep-04-13 | | zb2cr: 31. Rxg6+! Now, there's a short diversion if Black tries to decline the sacrifice: 31. ... Kh8; 32. Qf6+, Ng7; 33. Qxg7#. The main line is Black accepting the sacrifice with 31. ... hxg6. There follows 32. h7+, Kh8; 33.Qf6+, Kxh7 (if 33. ... Ng7??; 38. Qxg7#); 34. Qxf7+. Kh8; 35. Qxg6. Now White has B+2P vs. R, and a threat of Bg5 followed by Bf6+. Black has quite a variety of lines, which others have already posted. To <dufferps>: After 35. ... Qd1+; 36.Kh2, Qd3; 37. Bg5! I don't see any difficulty for White. What line did you have in mind that defends the threat of the Bishop check on f6? |
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| Sep-04-13 | | patzer2: There's more than one solution to today's puzzle. In addition to the mating attack after 31. Rxg6+!, White also has a win with 31. Qf6! (position below)
click for larger viewThe idea behind 31. Qf6! is Black's position is so disorganized, White can take his sweet time moving the Rook to f3 and clearing the Bishop off of f4 to threaten Rxf5 with a mate threat. For example, play might go 31. Qf6! Qd1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5+ 33. Rh3 Qd1 34. Rf3! Rc6 35. Bg5 (position below). 
click for larger view Here, Black must give up the Queen with 35...Qxf3 36. gxf3 to delay mate (e.g. 35...Rxe6 36. Qxe6 Qa4 37. Qc8+ Nd8 38. Qxd8+ kf7 39. Qe7+ Kg8 40. Rxf5 gxf5 41. Qg7#). |
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| Sep-04-13 | | QueenMe: By far the most interesting variant of bar chess is a chessboard consisting of drinks of various potency/size, according to the piece's point values. You have to drink on the spot whatever you capture. I'm told it makes early queen sacs much more viable (i.e., they work even if they really don't). |
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| Sep-04-13 | | tivrfoa: Thanks for the link <another user>. Aronian is pretty happy hehe
Does someone has more videos like this? =D |
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| Sep-04-13 | | M.Hassan: "Medium/Easy"
White to play 31.?
White is a pawn up.
31.Rxg6+
<if the Rook sac be declined (very unlikely), then 31...Kh8 32.Qf6+ Ng7 33.Qxg7#> 31............hxg6
32.h7+ Kh8 (forced)
33.Qf6+ Kxh7
34.Qxf7+ Kh8
35.Qxg6
If the pawn on g6 was not taken and instead a move like Bishop to g5 had been played:
<35.Bg5 to mate on f6, ...Qd1+ 36.Kh2 Qd1+ 37.Kh2 and 1/2-1/2 by perpetual check> 35...........Qd1+
36.Kh2
Black Queen now can not sit on h5 for another check
36...........Rg8
37.Qf6+ if Ng7
38.Qh6#
or if 37......Rg7
38.Qxf5 Rh7+
39.Kg3 and it is the end
39......... Rh3+ to delay mate
40.Kxh3
1-0 |
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| Sep-05-13 | | patcheck: 31. Rxg6+ [31. Qf6 could work too but seems more complicated, for instance : 31. … Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5 33. Rh3 Qd2 (not 33. … Qg4 34. f3 and the queen is trapped) and I don’t see an obvious way to win for white] hxg6 (31. … Kh8 32. Qf6+ Ng7 33. Qxg7#) 32. h7+ Kh8 33. Qf6+ Kxh7 (33. … Ng7 34. Qxg7#) 34. Qxf7+ Kh8 35. Qf6+ with two options: A) 35. … Kh7 36. Ng5+ Kf6 [35. … Kg8 and white wins, for instance : 36. Qxg6+ Ng7 (36. … Kh8 37. Qh7# / 36. … Kf8 37. Qf7#) 37. Qxc2 and wins] 37. Ne4+! Kh7 (37. … Kh5 38. Ng3+Kg4 39. Qg5#) 38. Qf7+ A1) 38. … Kh8 39. Nf6 Ng7 (39. … Qe1+ 40. Kh2 Qh5 41. Nxh5 looses too much material) 40. Bh6 and black has to give up its queen to avoid mate and is lost A2) 38. … Ng7 39. Nf6+ Kh8 40. Bh6 leads to the same continuation that A1) B) 35. … Kg8 36. Qxg6+ Kh8 (36. … Ng7 37. Qxc2 wins for white) 37. Ng5 (threatening 38. Qh7# and 38. Nf7#) 37. … Rc7 38. d6 (there must have other ways too) and black can’t deal with all the threats, for instance : 38. … Ng7 39. Qf8# / 38. … Rg7 38. Qf8+ Rg8 39. Bd4#. So, I think that 31. Rxg6+ hxg6 wins in all the lines although, after analyzing it is not in an easy way. So there may have other solution I didn’t see. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | patzer2: <patcheck><31. Qf6 could work too but seems more complicated, for instance : 31. … Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5 33. Rh3 Qd2 (not 33. … Qg4 34. f3 and the queen is trapped) and I don’t see an obvious way to win for white> After 32...Qh5, 33...Qd2 is an illegal move. So I assume you mean 33...Qd1. After 31. Qf6! Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5 33. Rh3 33. Qd1, the slow but sure 34. Rf3! wins. See my post above. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | kevin86: The rook sac sets up a quick decision by knockout (is that a contradiction?) |
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| Sep-05-13 | | patcheck: <patzer2> Various things : 1) You're right, in the first line I checked (31. Qf6 Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5+ 33. Rh3) 33. ... Qd2 is an illegal move but I was thinking in 33. ... Qe2 (and not Qd1). 2) I also checked a few minutes the line you mentionned above which seems to work although I didn't check evrything. 3)Then I looked quickly what could happen after : 1. Qf6 Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5+ 33. Rh3 Qd2 34. Rf3 and had not seen yet a good defense for black. 4) So, as you said, there could have been various options to win for white, for instance : 31. Rxg6+ and 31. Qf6. Although 31. Rxg6+ is totally clear to me and could be a little easier. 5) Finally, I don't know how to make diagrams like the ones you posted with your analysys. Could you tell me how to do that ? Thanks if it's possible. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | DrChopper: 31.Rxg6+ hxg6 32.h7+ Kh8 33.Qf6+ Kxh7 34.Qxf7+Kh8 35.Qf6+ Kh7 36.Ng5+ Kh6 37.Ne4+ Kh7 38.Qf7+ Ng7 39.Nf6+ Kh8 40.Bh6 then black have to sac his queen |
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