< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Mar-25-10|| ||BLUK: I'm not that experienced, so I'd appreciate any (more experienced) comments on the below line. I can't see where it falls down, but I suspect it does. The idea basically is to use the c and e pawns in the defence.|
Qd5+ 16.Rf3 Rf8, what happens when 17.c4 (obviously threatening if 17...Rxf3 18.cxd5).
The queen has to stay on that diagonal keeping the rook pinned otherwise the f8 rook is taken.
I've looked at a few follow up lines (starting with e.g. if 17...Qe4, then 18.d3. - also if 17...Qc6, then 18.d4 followed by 19.d5 which may win back the rook and threaten the bishop). They don't give white the win, but they seem to give white much more of a fighting chance that the line in the game.
|Mar-25-10|| ||tarek1: <BLUK>
After 16...Rf8 the white rook on f3 is attacked TWICE. So 17.c4 Qxf3 wins a rook simply :)
|Mar-25-10|| ||muralman: What day is this, Thursday? I must be getting smarter every day. The potential pins gave this one away. It was great fun. I hope to see more like this.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||BLUK: Thanks tarek1. I see your point. I was thinking that after the exchange of queens and after black wins the rook then 19.Kg2 attacks the rook (also if the rook moves white wins the bishop).|
It seem that this is a better position than the game line (although obviously still loosing).
I guess I'm wondering why the game line was chosen over this. I still must be missing something.
Thanks for the help.
|Mar-25-10|| ||tarek1: <BLUK>
There are several ways for black to react to the line you propose.
The simplest is probably, after Kg2, to just ignore the pseudo-threat of taking the rook, because whenever white takes anything on f3, the h2 pawn promotes. For example <19.Kg2 Bxe5 20.Ba3> threatening to take now <20...Rf7> and black keeps everything.
|Mar-25-10|| ||BLUK: Thanks again <tarek1>. Much appreciated.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||cheeseplayer: i saw it on spot!
i hope it's a sign for something good!
|Mar-25-10|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't actually see that 18. Kg2 was possible and thought 18. Ng1 Rxg1# was forced.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||Patriot: <BLUK> As <tarek1> says, the f3-rook is attacked twice and only defended once. This is what my coach calls a counting tactic because it's as if the rook isn't protected at all. You say you're not that experienced so if you study "counting" (a tactic which gets far less attention than it deserves) you will have an edge over many players. NM Dan Heisman, my instructor, has written "Novice Nooks" on this matter in detail that you should find interesting (see http://danheisman.home.comcast.net/...). "A Counting Primer" is one of them.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||YouRang: Not as hard as it might seem, if only because:
1. It looks like black need a quick king attack.
2. Black has so few pieces ready for a K attack
3. The first move, 15...Qd5+ is pretty obvious.
Nevertheless, it's ultimately a very impressive promotion tactic. :-)
|Mar-25-10|| ||TheBish: NN vs W Donisthorpe, 1890|
Black to play (15...?) "Medium"
The first move is quite obvious, but the follow-up is where Black shows his "muscle".
15...Qd5+ 16. Qf3
Or 16. Rf3 Rf8 17. Kg2 Rxf3 18. Qxf3 h1=Q+ 19. Kxh1 Qxf3#.
16...Rf8! 17. Qxd5
Otherwise Black wins queen for rook and wins easily.
17...Rxf1+ 18. Kg2 h1=Q+ 19. Kxg3 Qxd5 and Black has not only recovered his sacrificed queen, he has created a new one! Plus, gained another rook for bishop to boot. Practically speaking, White would hold out longer to give up his queen for rook (17. Kg2), but all lines are clearly hopeless for White.
|Mar-25-10|| ||johnlspouge: < <ZZpatzer> wrote: <johnlspouge> Just wanted to comment that your posts here always help me to remember the basic discipline inherent in considering positions (even if they may be "obvious"), so... Thanks! >|
Hi, <ZZpatzer>. So many kibitzers give such admirably patient and thorough analysis that nowadays I see my posts as a deliberately simple (and perhaps even simplistic) contrast. I appreciate your encouragement: you are very welcome.
|Mar-25-10|| ||johnlspouge: How appropriate that <TheBish> manages to insert his post just as I respond...|
|Mar-25-10|| ||turbo231: It took until Thursday again before I finally solved one. Last week was the same way. What's up with Thursday's ?|
|Mar-25-10|| ||wals: This 11 year old lad, NM, rated USCF
2215, doesn't appear to be under any duress from playing chess.
|Mar-25-10|| ||johnlspouge: < <turbo231> wrote: It took until Thursday again before I finally solved one. Last week was the same way. What's up with Thursday's ? >|
Maybe your Monday coffee is just starting to work by then ;>)
|Mar-25-10|| ||MarbleSkull: Note to self: Don't let my opponent get a pawn on my 2nd rank by move seven. |
Also, seemed easy for a Thursday. The check is the only real option, and after the check the game sequence is pretty easy to see.
|Mar-25-10|| ||Eduardo Leon: Too easy for a Thursday, in my opinion:
15...♕d5+ 16.♕f3 ♖f8! 17.♕xd5
Or 17.♔g2 ♖xf3 18.♖xf3 h1=♕+.
17...♖xf1+ 18.♔g2 h1=♕+
|Mar-25-10|| ||ChessPraxis: <<MarbleSkull>: Note to self: Don't let my opponent get a pawn on my 2nd rank by move seven.>|
Actually, White has a fairly high win rate when he lets the pawn get the 7th rank by the 7th move. (He just doesn't usually sac his Bishop on f7 as well.)
|Mar-25-10|| ||MaxxLange: Well. Bxf7+ sacs are not unusual in this variation either. But, as far as I know, the three pawns line in the Cunningham is pretty much in the dustbin of history. In the '60's 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 Be7 was played a lot by Soviet players, but they used 4...Nf6 after 4 Bc4|
4...Bh4+ is good fun in blitz though
|Mar-25-10|| ||OBIT: <tarek1><OBIT>After 15...Qd5+ 16. Rf3 Rf8 17. Ng5 Kxg5 18. d4+ Kg6 allows 19. Qd3+, so 18...Kh5 is an easier solution. On the other hand, the checks are exhausted in a unique way after 18...Kg6 19. Qd3+ Kh5 20. Qxh7+ Kg4 21. Kxg7+ Kxf3 22. Qxf8+ Ke2+ and mate next move, ho ho... |
(Yes, I talk to myself sometimes. So what's your point?)
|Mar-25-10|| ||turbo231: < johnlspouge >
I enjoyed that joke, coffee works, but you gotta drink it. I only occasionally drink coffee. Is it just a coincidence that two Thursday's in a row had the easiest puzzles?
|Mar-26-10|| ||TheaN: Thursday 26 March
Taken: <2m for sure, two seperate timeframes
Material: Black up, ♙
Odd that this is Thursday, it's the exact same theme as Wednesday, with one move extra to find. In fact, that's Black's only logical move.
<15....Qd5> now the White King's position is put to the question. White has to interpose, and with this many pieces around that might be a bad sign. Interposing with the Rook is toothless.
<16.Rf3 Rf8 > defending the Rook with 17.Ng5 Kxg5 18.d4 Kg6 does not work, and White will simply lose the pinned Rook. Does the Queen interposition, attacking the head piece of the pin, make a considered difference though?
<16.Qf3 Rf8!> no, of course not! Another crosspin, if 17.Qxd5 Rxf1 18.Ng1 hxg1=Q 0-1, the Queen is also pinned to f1.
<17.Ng5 Kxg5 18.d4 Kg6 > as in A. Time to check.
|Mar-26-10|| ||TheaN: 4/4
Hm I generally missed Kg2 as move. As well after Rf3 AND Qf3. As given by <John>, 16.Rf3 Rf8 17.Kg2, and 16.Qf3 Rf8 17.Qxd5 Rxf1 18.Kg2. Both positions have winning tactics that I would have seen.
On top of that, after 16.Rf3 Rf8 17.Kg2 Black didn't lose any material yet, and after 16.Qf3 Rf8 17.Qxd5 Rxf1 18.Kg2 h1=Q, Black won at least the exchange, only to notice that after 19.Kxg3 Qxd5 wins the Queen. On to today.
|Mar-26-10|| ||RandomVisitor: After 13.d4!
click for larger view
<[+0.73] d=21 13...0-0> 14.Ba3 Nd7
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