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Paul Troeger vs Mikhail Tal
Hamburg (1960)  ·  Dutch Defense: Staunton Gambit. General Variation (A83)  ·  0-1
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Given 914 times; par: 35 [what's this?]

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find similar games 1 more P Troeger/Tal game
sac: 16...Qxa2 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-15-11  Yodaman: Scored 45 in Guess-the-move, spending about half an hour to get through the game.

I played 19...Qa6+ after only briefly looking at 19...Qxb2. I thought that after 19...Qa6+ black was winning but after 20.Kf3 Bxe1 21.Bxa6 fxe5+ 22.Nf5 g6 23.Rxe1 Bxa6 24.Rxe5 gxf5 25.gxf5 (or 25.Rxf5, not sure which is better) the material is even and it looks more like a draw. I saw this line, but didn't see far enough into it to see that white was fine.

Also at the beginning I messed up by playing:
4...c6,
6...d6,
8...d6 (0 pts, although I'm not sure why the move order for d7 and Be7 is so important. What would white have been able to do differently if I were to play d7 first? In fact white would not have been able to play g4, so I'm not sure why 8...d6 is so bad. It locks in the bishop, but Tal did that anyways. Why is it necessary to wait two moves?) 11...Re8 (0 pts. I was considering Tal's 11...c5 for a while, but for some reason I thought it would be better to have my bishop on d7 before playing that so that I could recapture on c6 with the bishop. I guess that would be slow though and there's really nothing wrong with just recapturing with the pawn (12...bxc6)) 14...Qxa2 (-1pts... I made this move very quickly without calculating to see if it worked, simply because I didn't see any other move that looked decent. I didn't consider the correct move 14...Ne5, although after they showed me it I immediately saw that it was a MUCH better piece to sac than the bishop on e7. I quickly played 15...d5 to free the bishop on e7 taking advantage of the tempo gained by attacking the queen, then confidently played 16...Qxa2)

The only other non-Tal move that I made was the one I mentioned at the beginning of this post, 19...Qa6+, which I made hastily after an incomplete calculation that I simply thought must be winning. I of course should have looked farther into it and checked for better moves first.

Anyways, I am surprised I managed to get so many of Tal's moves. I don't know what my official rating is, but it's probably around like 1600. I feel as though if I had given myself the normal time controls (I made all of the moves in half an hour or so) then I would have been able to get a couple more. But then again, one wrong move in a game can cost you the game, so perhaps guessing all but a small handful of moves in a game is indeed common among amateurs. By slightly decreasing the percentage of time that you blunder or play inaccuracies, perhaps over the course of a game that will greatly increase how often you win / your rating.

Jan-12-12  Ithilius: 54 points. I don't know Dutch very well (from Black side), but I know Tal's style of playing and like it very much ;) Respect Mikhail Nekhemievich!! :):)
Jan-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  mrbasso: 8...d6 allows 9.Bb5+ and square e6 is very weak.
So it is necessary to castle first.
Jan-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  parisattack: Tal was the best at getting opponents to open lines and pass him tempi to develop his pieces. No wonder he had combos in the air so early in the game.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Got 42, in rapid play tempo.
Mar-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: <54 points, but mostly because i play the dutch so i didn't lose a lot in the opening.>

Same score here, missed 8...Be7 as I have played f5, g6, and (if 0-0-0) Bh6+ before.

Apr-14-12  balzarius: I scored 31 points,only a little bit subpar.I encountered too some problems in the opening which seemed not truly Tal-like but in the end I managed to guess about half of Tal's moves
Jun-05-12  Ghuzultyy: 42 points, finished in 4 minutes.
Aug-14-12  vikram2791: I got 38; I can't adopt to Tal's style.
Aug-17-12  justin2seo: Tal would be proud of me, 53 score.
Sep-01-12  The Last Straw: Got 53 on Guess-The-Move. :-)
Sep-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  profK: 10.Bc4 followd by 11.gNe2 looks better for white.
Sep-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Tal took on the White side of this variation in Tal vs S Johannessen, 1961, essaying 10.d6, which doesn't look very promising to me either, but White has to find something active, else his lack of a dark-squared bishop will tell once lines are opened on the queenside.
Sep-12-12  WhiteRook48: Against the Dutch, I usually play 2 Bg5, and it usually works pretty well. I've never understood why people play anything else against the Dutch Defense, can anyone help clarify for me?

Signed, A Confused Noob

Dec-12-12  Llawdogg: Sort of a windmill there at the end.
Jul-16-13  PlayboyChess6: 52 in 5 minutes -
i play in Tal-style
Jul-30-13  justin2seo: i love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love tal..
Aug-10-13  CapnSaltine: I scored 46, this being my first Guess the Move game. However, I have to admit, knowing it is a puzzle makes one think differently and take more chances. Perhaps that is Tal's style anyway, but I doubt I would have the gonads to play this way in a tournament game.
Aug-10-13  PlayboyChess6: i played my best tournament game
4 the memory of Tal:

PlayboyChess6(1665) vs
Otto Nemeth (1858)
Date: 07.05.2012
Event: FSMB May 2012, Budapest HUN
Round: 3
Result: 1-0
Opening: Sicilian Defence, Richter-
Rauzer Variation, Classical Variation
(B64)

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6
5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.O-O-O
O-O 9.f4 a6 10.Be2 Qc7 11.Bf3 Rd8
12.g4 h6 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Nde2 b5
15.Rdg1 g5 16.h4 gxf4 17.g5 hxg5
18.Qxf4 Bg7 19.Qxg5 f6 20.Qg2 Ne5
21.h5 Kh7 22.h6 Bh8 23.Rh5 Qf7
24.Rh3 Rg8 25.Qg7+ Rxg7 26.hxg7+ 1-0

Nov-05-13  chesswarmup: scored 46 in this.
Mar-24-14  Balmo: 55 on guess-the-move, although I took my time with it. dxc6 on move 12 for white seems like a mistake to me - helping Black resolve the problem of his bishop on e7. 14.Qe4 - the "fork" seems to run into difficulties after Tal's excellent Ne5. White's pieces are still sleeping after so many pawn and queen moves in the opening. And after Qd1 Qxa2, it's basically all over. Funny, Tal's opening isn't convincing either, but he seizes the initiative and never lets go.
May-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: I see that a number of players are saying things like "I'm not familiar with the Dutch", and so on. Whatever the opening, this is nothing to be proud of -- you should at least try to have a broad familiarity with all openings.

Of course, I admit there are openings that I've never played in competitive games. I've played both sides of the Dutch - but I have never played a Ruy Lopez, as either Black or White.

Can't talk, can I?

May-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Balmo....dxc6 on move 12 for white seems like a mistake to me - helping Black resolve the problem of his bishop on e7....>

The problem is that if White retreats the queen, there eventually follows ....f5 and the bishop at e7 is far from a problem piece: indeed, a dangerous long-term feature of the position for White is that he no longer even has a pretence of an initiative in return for the cession of the dark-squared bishop, whose opposite number becomes the best minor piece on the board.

<....Tal's opening isn't convincing either....>

This method against the Staunton is perfectly playable.

May-21-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <WhiteRook48> - <Against the Dutch, I usually play 2 Bg5, and it usually works pretty well. I've never understood why people play anything else against the Dutch Defense, can anyone help clarify for me?>

An excellent question. I regularly play the Dutch, and I don't think anyone has played 2.Bg5 against me ... but this is because I play the move order 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 (or 2.Nf3/g3 f5), which avoids most of the anti-Dutch lines like 2.Bg5. I used to think that it avoided all of them, until somebody sprang the Korchnoi Gambit on me (1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.h3 Nf6 4.g4).

I think 2.Bg5 (like the h3 gambit and other anti-Dutch variations) is a very good way of playing against the Dutch. As White, I've played the Lisitsyn Gambit (1.Nf3 f5 2.e4) and the slower version with 2.d3. Basically, anything that hits the positional weaknesses of the Dutch, as early as possible, is best for White - for if Black is allowed to carry out his plan he'll be fine. However, the 2.Bg5 idea is quite new. I used to have a 1970s book on the Classical Dutch, by Bellin, and he paid almost no attention to 2.Bg5. More recent works, eg by Andrew Martin, remedied that. A lot of 1.d4 players have a development plan in mind, which they'll try to carry out against any black system. Many distrust sharp lines like 2.Bg5. That may be your answer. One day, however, I'd like to try a line advocated by Simon Williams (in 'Dangerous Weapons: the Dutch): 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.e4 Rh7 ... fun and games, eh?

Jul-06-14  prosperov: wow i enjoyed using this feature for the first time. To say Tal was brilliant is an understatement
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