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Later Kibitzing> |
Nov-29-12
 | | HeMateMe: 5 seconds. Nothing more sexy than a discovered check/double check threat. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Lykos: 44. Qc2
seems to me most hopeful for white |
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| Nov-29-12 | | sfm: 35.-,e4 36.Nxe4!
But 39.Rxb7??
Why did White not play 39.BxN ? Was there some nasty answer? Or did he simply think that the b-pawn was a free additional grab, missing the trivial sac on g3? As far as I can see, White is the much happier player after 39.BxN, Black's position is falling apart, with open kingside, a nasty issue on b7 and a pawn behind.
Am I right? |
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| Nov-29-12 | | whiteshark: <42...Nxg3> and white is in the choke hold |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Djoker: <Abdel> 45. fxg3 Qxg3+ 46. Kf1 Bh3#.
It is important to first remove the bishop. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Bengambit: 42...Qh5 then Qh3 |
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| Nov-29-12 | | morfishine: While Black is up a piece, he has only 3 pawns, all isolated. One however is
wedged deep at <f3>. This gives Black a target sqiare to force mate: <g2> First, we can discard 42...Qxg3+ 43.fxg3 f2+ due to <44.Kh2>; after 44...fxe1
45.Qxe1 the pressure is relieved since the knight can't check (I spent way too much
time looking at this line)
Secondly, 42...Nxg3 (threatening a deadly exposed check) wins for Black if 43.fxg3 Qxg3+ 44.King any & 44...Qg2 mate; But fails to 43.Rxe7+ <43...Qxe7?> after 44.Bxf5+ Nxf5
45.Qxf5+ Kg7 46.Qxf3
But what if Black tosses a whole rook with check? Again, 42...Nxg3 43.Rxe7+ <Kg6>
44.Re6+ Kh5 and the threat 45...Ne2+ wins due to 46.Kf1 Qg1 mate or 46.Kh1 Qg2 mate.
(or 44.Bxf5+ Nxf5+ 45.Kf1 Qg2+ 46.Ke1 Qg1+ 47.Kd2 Qxb1 winning White's Queen) 
click for larger view**********
Continuations I overlooked or didn't mention, all losing: (1) 45.fxg3 Qxg3+ 46.Kf1 Bh3 mate
(2) 45.Bf1 Ne2+ 46.Kh2 Qh4+ 47.Bh3 Qxh3 mate (or simply 46...Bxb1 which is sort of comical) (3) 45.Qf1 Ne2+ 46.Kh2 Qh4+ 47.Qh3 Qxh3 mate |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Bartimaeus: <sfm Why did White not play 39.BxN ?> The one line that seems better for black is 39. Bxe4 Rxe4 40. Rxe4 Qg6 41. c5 dxc5 42. Rbc4 Bh3. For white, its certainly not as bad as the game position but black seems to have a better attack. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | James D Flynn: Black is up a N for 2 pawns but his N on e4 is attacked times and defended twice. It cannot readily mbe moved because dual pin of the R on e7 and the B on f5 both of which are defended only by the Q. black also has some possible mating threats based on his pawn on f3. The N can be defended a third time by either Q g6 or Qg4 both of which abandon the defense of the R on e7. A passive defense like 42.Qg6 doesn’t look promising because White can simply advance his a pawn and force the R to abandon the defense of the N. Black also has the surprising move 42….Qh4 to defend the N because 43.gxh4 Rg7+ leads to mate e.g. 44.Kh1 Nxf2+ 45.Kh2 Rg2# or 44.Kf1 Bh3#. Black can also consider 42…Nxg3 with the threat of double check by Ne2+ and mate by Qg2. The N cannot be taken because 43.fxg3 Qxg3+ allows mate and after 43.Bxf5+ Nxf5+ Black mates by Qg2# . After 42…..Nxg3 43.Rxe7+ the Black K has to find shelter. He cannot move to the back rank because 44.Qb8+ wins What about 43….Kg6? 44.Bxf5+(if Rg7+(if Re6+ Kh5 45.Rh6+ Kxh6 46.Qc1 Ne2+ 47.Kf1 Nxc1 wins) Kxg7 and after Qb7+ or Qb2+ White runs out of checks)Nxf5+ 45.Kf1 Qg2+ 46.Ke1 Qg1+ 47.Kd2 Qxb1 wins. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Abdel Irada: < Djoker: <Abdel> 45. fxg3 Qxg3+ 46. Kf1 Bh3#. It is important to first remove the bishop.> I assume you refer to my solution variation (4), because that's the only line I give in which White takes the knight. On that assumption, the bishop on f5 is pinned to the king on g6 and therefore can't go to h3, with mate or otherwise. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Bartimaeus: <Abdel: On that assumption, the bishop on f5 is pinned to the king on g6 and therefore can't go to h3, with mate or otherwise.> It seems Djoker's referring to line (4) of yours and the Bishop isn't pinned in this line. 43. Rxe7+ Kg6 44. Re6+ Kh5 45. fxg3 Qxg3+ 46. Kf1 Bh3#. The king isn't on g6 but on h5. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Abdel Irada: Good grief. You're right. You refer to the line after the move-pair I failed to insert when looking at the position just now. Apologies, <Djoker>. And good catch, <Bartimaeus>. This would imply that White accelerates the mate by interpolating 44. Re6†, Kh5. The question I'm left with: When does White have a chance to remove the bishop? |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Bartimaeus: I don't see the Bishop on f5 being removable at all after the disastrous sequence begins on 39. Rxb7. Trying to take it causes either equally serious material loss or even worse, mate. It's a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Abdel Irada: Agreed. In all the lines I looked at, taking on f5 led to a speedy mate. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | morfishine: Another line I looked at was <42...Qh4>. Black protects the Knight a third time so White can't liquidate being a piece down. If White takes the Queen, Black mates: <43.gxh4 Rg7+ 44.Kh1 Nf2+ 45.Kh2 Rg2 mate> The idea is to prompt White to play <Bf1>: <42...Qh4 43.c5 Qh3 44.Bf1 Qh1+ 45.Kxh1 Nxf2+ 46.Kh2 Ng4+ 47.Kg1 f2+ 48.Kg2 fxe=N+ 49.Kg1 Bxb1>
click for larger view |
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| Nov-29-12 | | MiCrooks: I would think that Qh4 would lose to the relatively simple Rxe4...what's the reply morf? Your Queen is hanging, your Rook is hanging and your mate threat is now gone when I play gxh4. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | BOSTER: <HMM> <5 seconds.>
Why is so long?
If you are not very <hungry>, you have the time to notice that the black king on the same diagonal as white bishop d3 and white queen b1.
This doesn't give black the possibility to move two pieces (Bf5 and Ne4) one after another. Among candidates moves we have 42...Qxg3, Qg4 and Nxg3. First try with check! Don't give too much 42...Qxg3+ 43.fxg3 f2+ 44.Kh2 fxe1=Q 45.Qxe1. The <calm> move 42...Qg4 like introduction to mate on "g2" doesn't promise too much , because g2 can be protected by Bf1 or Qf1 (after Re3). 42...Nxg3 sound nice because the white king is almost in mating net and can't cross f1 square to move on the queen's side.
43.Rxe7+ Kg6 44.Re6+ Kh5 45.Rxh6+ Kxh6 and black won. |
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Nov-29-12
 | | chrisowen: Ligament in key it is knight ing3 alleviate hind maneovre a rook e7+ in panda to the crowd it dog in dig knight also be 42...Nxg3 ha got this con eg free ditto ok a culpa in real off 43.Rxe7+ first in old gate hang eel in, Kingg6 script is set joker honoured in f4 then h6 ginseng going gadzooks in sold d5 in some it is bowling free up ride lion in g3 wash over the rest. In among it is down easy 44.fxg3 Qxg3+ slinger game your in majesty roam apart 45.Kf1 qg2+ Nocturnal Ive queen black in great-tening position to produce death knell ie evading his king in pocket 46.Ke1 f2+ the fireworks start in ratchet back really it double checking d1 f2 queen. A deep Nb6 in danger it d5 when having ok wangle pack now ledge in rolling pawn every front e5 shirk oof f5 in delve againf3 is the key angled ogle for knightxg3 in please park your bus outside and in just watch the day go Weiguo, |
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Nov-29-12
 | | doubledrooks: 42...Nxg3! pries open the White kingside, while also offering a free rook. For example: a. 43. Rxe7+ Kg6 44. fxg3 Qxg3+ 45. Kf1 Qg2+ 46. Ke1 f2+ 47. Kd1 f1=Q+ a.1 48. Bxf1 Qxf1+ 49. Kd2 Qxb1+ 
a.2 48. Re1 Qxd3+
b. 43. Bxf5+ Nxf5+ 44. Kf1 Qg2# |
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| Nov-29-12 | | waustad: What I didn't count was the attack on the rook with check. |
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| Nov-29-12 | | TheBish: W Lin vs J Ye, 1998 Black to play (42...?) "Medium", Black is up a piece for two pawns.
This looks fairly straightforward.
42...Nxg3! threatening 43...Ne2+ and 44...Qg2#. Just noticed that 43. Rxe7+ is check! 42...Nxg3! 43. Rxe7+ (not 43. Bxf5+ Nxf5+ follwed by 44...Qg2#) Kg6! Of course not 43...Qxe7 44. Bxf5+ Nxf5 45. Qxf5+ when White is winning. Now (after 43...Kg6):
A) 44. Bxf5+ Nxf5+ 45. Kf1 Qg2+ 46. Ke1 Qg1+ 47. Kd2 Qxb1 wins the queen. B) 44. Re6+ Kh5! with the deadly threat of 45...Ne2+ 46. Kf1 Qg1#, and if 45. fxg3 Qxg3+ 46. Kf1 Bh3#. I think that's about it... |
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| Nov-29-12 | | Patriot: 42...Nxg3 looks about right.
43.Bxf5+ Nxf5+ and mate next.
43.fxg3 Qxg3+ and mate next.
43.Rxe7+ Qxe7 44.Bxf5+ doesn't look right.
So this whole thing may be wrong...
How about 42...Qh5?
43.Bxe4 Rxe4 44.Rxe4 and this doesn't look like it's going anywhere. Another idea: 42...Qd2 43.Bxe4 doesn't look good for black. I'm not sure what I'm missing but I'm too tired tonight to work it out. ---------
Ok, I missed 42...Nxg3 43.Rxe7+ Kg6. |
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| Nov-30-12 | | morfishine: <MiCrooks> Thanks for looking! Clearly, Black can only play <43...Qxe4 44.Bxe4 Bxe4>. I wasn't able to visualize the whole sequence and didn't feel too good about it; Luckily, my instincts were correct and I returned to <43...Nxg3> finally seeing that the exposed check was deadly. I posted my raw look at <43...Qh4> as an exercise as to what goes on when one tries to solve with pure visualization. Here's some post thoughts I dropped off at <Pariot>'s forum: Patriot chessforum Happy Solving! |
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| Nov-30-12 | | kevin86: The dangerous double check will win! AND quickly! |
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| Dec-01-12 | | sfm: <Bartimaeus: [sfm: Why did White not play 39.BxN ?] The one line that seems better for black is 39. Bxe4 Rxe4 40. Rxe4 Qg6 41. c5 dxc5 42. Rbc4 Bh3. For white, its certainly not as bad as the game position but black seems to have a better attack.>
Well, I think White wins comfortably after 41.f3 (instead of your suggested 41.c5), e.g. -,Rg7 42.Rb2. White will follow up with Qe1. There is no longer any momentum in Black's "attack". |
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