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Boris Gelfand vs Peter Svidler
FIDE WCh KO 2001  ·  Catalan Opening: Closed Variation (E06)  ·  1/2-1/2
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-07-05  Stonewaller2: OK chess mavens, you try it; set up the position and, without a database, deliver mate as White at any reasonable time control. I knocked my brains out over this stuff yesterday from dinnertime into the wee small hours and my advice is avoid Q vs. R unless you've got the R or a clear win.
Mar-07-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: Definitely an endgame to study, since R&P endgames often lead to Q vs R. The key position is Qh5/Kf6 against Rg7/Kg8 = Burn vs D G Baird, 1889 Move 83 and now the Rook moves away where it can be forked. Note the opposing King must be out of the corner, otherwise the Rook sacrifices itself at f7 or g6 for stalemate. Here I think Black was fine up to 95. Rg1, then 95 ... Qh4+ 96. Kg2 Qf2+ 97. Kh1 Kf3 and now Rook moves along the rank lose to 98 ... Qh4+ 99. Kg1 Qg5+ etc keeping the King on the g & h files (if Kf1, then ... Qg2+ & ... Qe2#) until setting up the fork, while Rook moves along the file lead to checks on the first 2 ranks aiming for the winning fork. Tricky, yet it can be done.
Mar-08-05  Stonewaller2: Sorry, <tpstar>, but in your line after 97. ... Kf3 98. Rg3+! and taking the R is stalemate.

Permission to revise and extend my remarks from yesterday, I meant to say deliver mate as Black of course . . . must've still been a little punchy from the long day's journey into night . . .

Mar-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <Stonewaller2> Arrgh, yes, thanks for the correction. Then if 98. Rg3+! Kf4 White has a super-Rook with 99. Rg4+! etc. Back to the drawing board. ;>)
Mar-08-05  Stonewaller2: <Arrgh> You have my sincerest sympahties. There's a lot of that going around when it comes to Q vs. R, not to mention R vs. N.

Of course after 98. Rg3+! Kf2 99. Rg2 is also drawn.

Mar-08-05  aw1988: <tpstar> The drawing board? Is it just me, or are you displaying your punderful wit again?
Mar-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: OK, 95. Rg1 reaches this position Taimanov vs G Barcza, 1967 Move 88 where Black wins with 95 ... Qh4+ 96. Kg2 Qd4! and now (1) 97. Rb1 Qe4+ (2) 97. Rc1 Qg4+ 98. Kh1 Qh5+ & 99 ... Qg5+ (3) 97. Rh1 Qg4+ 98. Kh2 Kf2 (4) 97. Kh2 Kf2 98. Rg2+ Kf1 (4a) 99. Kh1 Qe4 (4b) 99. Kh3 Qh8+ 100. Kg3 Qg7+ (4c) 99. Rg3 Qh4+ 100. Rh3 Qf2+ 101. Kh1 Qg2# (4d) other Rook moves = 99 ... Qh4#. Ta Da!

<aw1988> It is just you.

Oct-30-05  you vs yourself: After 54.Kg3, can anyone check if 54...h1=Q gives a direct victory for Svilder? The position after 55.RxQ 55...f4+ would be:


click for larger view

Nov-05-05  Professeur Y: <you vs yourself> you mean 64. Kf3, and not 54.Kf3. It's hard to tell if there's a win; if so it is not obvious. After 56.kh4, what does black do to promote? Very difficult to analyze, as I feel a bit lazy and don't own Fritz.

This, however, doesn't require Fritz: Svidler missed 85... Qc5+ picking up the rook.

Dec-14-05  gadfly: 85. ...Qc5+ is a winning move for black. Unbelievable that Svidler and Gelfand both missed it. Simply pathetic.
Dec-14-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  KingG: That's FIDE time controls for you.
Dec-14-05  gadfly: It is hard to miss such a move even in a bullet game. The FIDE time controls cannot serve as an excuse here, although I admit I am not their biggest fan.
Nov-18-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  ahmadov: I guess Svidler could convert this into a win if this happened nowadays. After all, this happened when he was under 2700 (I believe that this does matter).
Jun-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: Aside from 85...Qc5+ as pointed out by <gadfly>, one of the better known wins missed (twice) by Svidler was at move 95, when instead of 95...Qf4+ Black could have played 95...Qh4+ 96.Kg2 Qd4! arriving at this zugzwang position:


click for larger view

Here Rook moves are out (97.Rh1 Qg4+ 98.Kh2 Kf2 and mates; 97.Rf1 Qg4+; 98.Rc1 Qg7+ 99.Kh3 Qh6+, etc.), so what must follow is:

97.Kh2 (97.Kh1 is basically the same, 97...Kf2 98.Rg2+ Kf1) Kf2 (with the idea mate) 98.Rg2+ Kf1 (diagram)


click for larger view

Now White can resign (even against Svidler ;) since there is only 99.Ra2 Qh4# or 99.Kh1 Qe4 or 99.Kh3 Qh8+ 100.Kg3 Qg7+ or 99.Rg3 Qe5 100.Kh1 (100.Kh3 Qh5#) Qh8+ 101.Rh3 Qxh3#.

There are, in certain variations, yet other ways for Black to win, but these are redundant. Had Svidler known (or recalled) this position, then he could have won later in the game as well, since 110...Qe4! would have produced the first diagram above, just rotated.

Apr-10-08  positionalgenius: How is this one of Gelfands notable games? Svidler couldn't convert an ending that all top GMs should be able to win.
Apr-11-08  whatthefat: <positionalgenius: How is this one of Gelfands notable games? Svidler couldn't convert an ending that all top GMs should be able to win.>

It's for precisely that reason that it's ended up in a enough game collections to render this a notable game. I agree it's rather silly if someone's looking for one of Gelfand's best games though.

May-13-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  numbersguy70: Semantics, but by the 50 move rule, it should have been a draw a move earlier. Last piece was taken on move 78, and no pawns left, so the 50th move without a piece taken or pawn pushed was 128.
May-14-08  sfairat: 86.Qc5+ wins the rook. And this guy is really a GM? Wow.
Jul-23-08  GeauxCool: <"...after 78.Rxf4

Instead of resigning, as most players would have done, Boris Gelfand simply challenged his opponent to prove that he could do it. Peter Svidler went to work against the almost flawless defence put up by White. Only on move 85 Boris allowed a deadly fork, which Peter did not see!">

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...

Dec-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: 85 ... ?


click for larger view

85 ... Qg1-g7??


click for larger view

<sfairat: 85.Qc5+ wins the rook. And this guy is really a GM? Wow.>

<gadfly: 85. ...Qc5+ is a winning move for black. Unbelievable that Svidler and Gelfand both missed it. Simply pathetic.>

(VAR)
85 ... Qg1-c5+! <fork>


click for larger view

Feb-20-09  WhiteRook48: Gelfand was now the one to swindle into a draw
Mar-07-09  WhiteRook48: and Svidler missed the fork?
Jun-06-09  WhiteRook48: 85 Kh3 avoids the fork
Aug-28-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  kbob: Big fan of Svidler’s here, but frankly, I don’t think he ever had a chance. He missed too many ”golden plums” along the way for me to believe he ever practiced up on the basic ideas of this ending. Beating a dead horse, I suppose, but here are just a few more random shots along the way that I think screamed out for the taking.

86. ...Qg3 is the standard way to help your king “cross the rubicon”. Black must conquer the f file. The queen excludes the rook from four squares . Now maneuver your king to e6 which observes three more. Finally, if the rook is still on f8, transfer the move (with two queen checks and return) and the rook is zugzwanged off the file. Understanding, not memory.

90. ... Qg5 An even more golden opportunity along the same lines. From here the queen steals five squares along the file and black won’t even need a tempo battle to chase the rook away.

91. ...Ke4 !! Now if white maintains his straegy with 92. Rf2 (computer best) the key position of the “third rank” defence is reached. [ ke4, qg6, Kh4, Rf2, or suitable reflection ] I’m sorry, but if you want to append this half point to your career result you will just have to recognize this position and brute memorize the forced mate in eighteen that begins with the only best but humanly unfindable move 92. ...Qd5. I don’t think Svidler had this in his bag of tricks at the time.

122. ...Although it is already too late here, 122. ...Qd5 forks (via discovery) the white king and the vital “anchor square” a8. Now harassing checks from the rear are ineffective as the black king will encroach on the eighth rank. If the rook returns to f7 he is back somwhere in the mating sequence from before.

Except for the one blunder, Gelfand did a good job of serving up the trickier variations along the way.

Sep-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  kbob: Here for example is the key position and the computer perfect mate in 18 from the last note. (sorry for a typo: 92. ...Qd6 is correct). It’s not so hard if you break it down in stages.


click for larger view

92. ...Qd6; 93. Kg4,Qd1+; 94. Kg3,Qg1+; 95. Rg2,Qe3+; 96. Kh2,Kf4; 97. Rg7,Qe5; 98. Rg3,Qe4; 99. Rh3,Qd5; 100. Rg3.Qe5; 101. Rg2, Kf3+; 102. Kh1,Qa1+: 103. Kh2,Qe1; 104. Rg8,Qe5+; 105. Kg1, Qd4+; 106. Kh8,Qa1+; 107.K-h2,Qa2+; 108. Kg1,Qg8+; 109. Kf1, Qg2+; 110. Ke1,Qe2#

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