< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Jan-25-09|| ||sleepyirv: Okay, so White's most distinguishing feature is his centralized pawns. Nf5 will lock Black's pieces out of defending an attack on the King. This is when I noticed the exchange sac(Thank you Petrosian!). THEN Nf5 which would leave Black with no defense. I don't think Black can accept it. Black will probably take the bishop, hoping I'll take it back and then take the rook. But I'm satisfied with continuing the attack with Nf5. |
At this point, I have no idea how to continue on from this position, but I'm quite happy with what I came up with.
|Jan-25-09|| ||sleepyirv: Yikes, "doubling" rooks is pretty obvious. I just assumed there's some sort of awesome sac here for a quick victory. White certainly has the time to get all his pieces involved before starting the final offensive.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||dzechiel: White to play (20?). Material even. "Insane."
White seems to have only one really "forcing" move here, and even it isn't that forcing:
Black now has two moves to consider
The first candidate
does pick up an exchange, but only at the expense of ripping a big hole in the castled king's defences. White would continue
threatening 22 Qg4+ and 23 Qg7#. After
Moving 21...Rfd8 doesn't make enough room for the king to run, as the knight nicely covers both g7 and e7.
Threatening 23 Bxf6+
22...Nxb2 23 Qxb2 23...Qd8
I don't know, I think black is holding off the white attack here.
There's a lot more, especially the line where black rejects the sacrifice. But as I can't get the line where the sac is accepted to work, I'm going to throw in the towel and check the score.
How did this finish up?
|Jan-25-09|| ||al wazir: 26. Qh3 is a cleaner kill. If 26...Rxf7, then 27. Rxf7+ Qxf7 28. Rxf7+ Kxf7 29. Qxc8. If 26...h5, then 27. Rxg6+ Kxg6 28. Qf5+ Kg7 29. Qg5+ Kh7 30. Qh6+ Kg8 31. Qh8#. If 26...Qxe4, then 27. Qh6+ Kg8 28. Ng5 Qe3+ 29. Kh1 Rxf6 30. Qxh7+ Kf8 31. Rxf6+ Ke8 32. Rf8+ Kxf8 33. Qf7#. If 26...Rc7, then 27. Rxg6+ hxg6 28. Qh6+ Kg8 Qh8#. Etc.|
Alas, I only saw white's first two moves.
|Jan-25-09|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: No credit for seeing the obvious first move of this line; you have to find refutations of both defenses. Refusing the sac with 20...Nxb2 is too easy; 21.Nf5!|
Black probably thought he could survive accepting the sac, thanks to the threat of ...Nxb2 and his Queen's control of g4, but after Black accepts the sacrifice, 21.Nh5 is quite a problem. 21...Qe6 allows 22.d5, 21...Qe7 allows 22.Qg4+ and mate, so 21...Kh8 looks best, but then 22.Nxf6,Qe7; 23.d5,Nxb2; 24.Qxb2 looks like a strong attack.
Now it's time to find out how badly I botched this one.
|Jan-25-09|| ||jmhobrien: Is 25...Kg7 best, or just a hopeful novelty? seems to me that if black sacs the exchange by capturing on f7, the resulting endgame only marginally favours white. Maybe there is some other move I'm not seeing?|
|Jan-25-09|| ||Once: The first move is not so hard to find. From the unplugged position:|
click for larger view
Any attacking player with a pulse must be interested in 1. Rxf6 because 1...gf ruins black's castled position. White then needs other attacking pieces to funnel quickly into the attack before black can regroup with moves like Kh8, Rg8 and Rg7 when the open g file can actually be an attacking plus for black.
But back to our game. How to deal with black's main defences of 20...gf and 20...Nxb2? Lots of variations to calculate and more good moves to find. I ran my own ideas against Fritz with depressing results.
After 20...gf, I wanted to play Nf5 with an "irrestible kingside attack". Rubbish, retorts Herr Fritz. Black defends with Kh8, Nxb2 (to stop the bishop joining the fun after d5) and Rg8 to stop the queen from landing on g4. Instead, Fritz points out 20...Nh5 with a fork threat on f6 and a mate threat on g7.
After 20...Nxb2, I thought I had time for 21. Qxb2 because the queen is well posted on the long diagonal to add an attack on f6. Again, Herr Fritz points out where I have gone wrong. 21. Qxb2 gxf6 22. Nf5 Qc7 23. Qc7 Kh8 (= 0.00). The white queen cannot get to the g file fast enough to prevent black's Kh8/Rg8 defence.
There will be cries of "tweazy" today in the streets of CGville. Mark me down for a verdict of "insane", please.
|Jan-25-09|| ||UnsoundHero: Black shouldn't give up the center with 17...dxe4. I guess he couldn't resist the follow-up ...Nc5 & ...Na4. But, of course, the game proves that this is a losing idea.|
If black tries 18...Rfd8 instead of 18...Nc5, then 19 Rxf6 anyway. One of the drawbacks of opening white's f-file. The game might continue 19...gxf6 20 Nh5 Qe7 21 Qg3+ Ng5 22 d5 Rd6 23 Bxf6 Rxf6 24 Qxg5+ Rg6 25 Qxe7. Or 22...Qc5+ 23 Kh1 Rd6 24 h4 (24 Nxf6+?! Rxf6 25 Bxf6 Qc1+ 26 Qe1 Qf4!).
|Jan-25-09|| ||UnsoundHero: I've been trying to save black's game. I think the move 14...Rc8 isn't useful. Black should try 14...c4. It's true it gives up the center, but at least shuts out the Bb2. Black would be hoping for 15 Qc2 Re8 16 Ng3 Qc7 17 e4 dxe4 18 fxe4 Nf4 with the idea of ...Nd3.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||Alphastar: I found the first two moves (Rxf6 Nxb2 Nf5!), didn't bother to look further as it seems to me that there are a plethora of defenses black can try.|
For example, I wonder what happens if black plays 21. ..Kh8 instead of 21. ..Qe8, and then answers 22. Qg4 with ..g6. Is it just 22. Rd6 and 23. Qxb2 ? Doesn't seem like white can hang onto the extra piece to me after 23. ..g6.
|Jan-25-09|| ||LoveThatJoker: The whole tactical underpinning of 20. Rxf6 gf is 21. Nh5!|
Not 21. Nf5.
|Jan-25-09|| ||johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane):
R Vera vs S Garcia-Martinez, 2001 (20.)
White to play and win.
Material: B for B. The Black Kg8 has 1 legal move. White has 2 relatively stable central Ps, Pd4 and Pe4, connected and freely able to advance. The Pd4 is in fact passed. The White Rf1 has a semi-open file, with Ra1 ready to reload. The Black Nf6 is a potential target for Rf1xf6, breaking the Black K-position open, particularly with Bb2 on the a1-h8 diagonal. The White Ng3 can reinforce squares along the same diagonal in 1 move from either f5 or h5. The White Qe2 could contribute to a local superiority around the Black K-position with Qe2-h5, except for the Black Nf6. Black threatens to exchange Bb2 off with Na4xb2, but Na4 is seriously misplaced and out of play, should the exchange not occur. The White Kg1 is open on the a7-g1 diagonal but presently secure.
Candidates (20.): Rxf6
20.Rxf6 (threatening 21.Nh5))
To maintain material, Black must capture. He has 2 captures:
(1) 20…gxf6 21.Nh5 (threatening 22.Qg4+ 24.Qg7# or 22.Nxf6+)
(1.1) 21…Kh8 22.Nxf6 (threatening 23.Nxd7 or 23.Qh5 24.Qxh7#)
Black has no feasible response to the mate threat.
(1.2) 21…Qe6 22.d5
Black must drop his Qe6 to prevent 23.Qg4+ 24.Qg7#.
(2) 20…Nxb2 21.Nf5
Strategically, White has exchanged Bb2 for the crucial defender Nf6, rather than the misplaced Nb7. Moreover, he has centralized Nf5, so it attacks Pg7 as well as defends Pd4. Tactically, White threatens 22.Qg4 then 23.Qxg7# or 23.Nh6+ 24.Qxd7. The mate threats render Rf6 immune to 21…gxf6 and there is also the threatened discovered attack against Qd7, so Black must move Kg8, Qd7, or Pg6 now, and leave Nb7 hanging.
(2.1) 21…Kh8 22.Rd6 (threatening 23.Qxb2)
Black can only maintain material equality by keeping Rd6 under threat.
22…Qc7 23.Rc6 Qxc6 [else, 24.Rxc8 25.Qxb2] 24.Ne7+
Black drops Q for R.
(2.1) 21…g6 22.Qxb2 gxf5 [else, drop a N] 23.Rxf5
White has won a P, and the Black K-position is shattered.
To win a piece, White need only rescue his Rf6, so Black must move Qd7.
(2.2) 21…Qe8 [Qc7 22.Rc6] [Qd8 22.Rd6 as above]
White has all the initiative, with a strong K-side attack starting with Qe2-g4 and mate threats to keep Rf6 and Nf5 immune to capture.
|Jan-25-09|| ||johnlspouge: The basic point of doubling Rs is positional: White delays Qe2-g5 to strengthen the attack while Black must spend time to maintain a pointless material equality. I quit calculating at the right time.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||whiteshark: <21...g6> looks like the only playable move here. After <22.Qxb2 gxf5 23.Rxf5 Rc2 24.Qb4 Rfc8> the outcome of the game is . |
click for larger view
|Jan-25-09|| ||DarthStapler: I at least considered the first move|
|Jan-25-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <<whitexhark> <21...g6> looks like the only playable move here. After <22.Qxb2 gxf5 23.Rxf5 Rc2 24.Qb4 Rfc8>>|
I really liked the move 23...Rc2 in this continuation.
click for larger view
Now if 24 Qxc2?, then 24...Qxd4+ evens the match.
Black forces white has to play 24 Qb4 to protect his d pawn.
|Jan-25-09|| ||Patriot: White to play: "Insane"
I gave myself a 20-minute think on this and decided that 20.Rxf6 had very good prospects--it's probably the only move that gives white winning chances.
For example, 20...gxf6 21.Nh5 (threatening 22.Nxf6+ and 23.Nxd7) 21...Kh8 22.Nxf6 Qe7 23.e5 maintaining a grip and threatening 23.Qh5. (Not 23.d5 Nxb2 24.Qxb2 with discovered checks possible but is likely about even.)
Or if 20...Nxb2 21.Nf5! threatening 22.Qg4 g6 23.Nh6+ winning the queen--a very common theme. (21...gxf6 22.Qg4+ and mate next)
There are so many variations to consider here and I certainly couldn't analyze everything in 20 minutes but just had to try the Rxf6 line because it seemed to lead in a positive direction for white. I'm sure <dzechiel>, <johnlspouge>, and others on this site are much better at balancing time with analysis than I am but hopefully one day I will get there.
|Jan-25-09|| ||TheChessGuy: Interesting puzzle. 20.Rxf6! is the move I looked at right away, being more of an attacking player. When I realized that it gave White solid winning chances, I smiled like the Cheshire Cat. The late, great Tigran Petrosian would have happily parted with the exchange here.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||njchess: I got this sequence, although it took me a minute to find Rf1. I think the hard part was not being distracted by Nxb2. Rf1 nicely anticipates g6 as the reply to Qg4. From there, White's attack is overpowering.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||agb2002: I think I would try 20.Rxf6:
A) 20... gxf6 21.Nh5
A.1) 21... Qe7 22.Qg4+ Kh8 23.Qg7#.
A.2) 21... Qe6 22.d5 Rc2 23.Qxc2 winning.
A.3) 21... Kh8 22.d5 Nxb2 23.Qxb2 Qe7 24.Nxf6 Rc4 25.Rf1 (25.Nd7+, recovering the exchange, is probably not so strong) with a winning attack because the dark squares are too weak.
A.4) 21... Rc6 22.d5 Rd6 23.Bxf6 again with a winning attack.
B) 20... Nxb2 21.Nf5
B.1) 21... Na4 22.Qg4 g6 23.Nh6+ and 24.Qxd7 winning.
B.2) 21... Kh8 22.Rd6 Qe8 23.Qxb2 with a knight ahead.
B.3) 21... g6 22.Qxb2 gxf5 23.Rxf5 with a pawn up and a considerable advantage.
B.4) 21... Qd8 22.Rd6 as B.2).
|Jan-25-09|| ||spreadsanity: Black's move 21 looks weak to me, I think 21... Qa4 is a lot more promising, a lot of white's advantage is negated.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||Nullifidian: <spreadsanity:> <Black's move 21 looks weak to me, I think 21... Qa4 is a lot more promising, a lot of white's advantage is negated.>|
I don't think this would have saved the game for Black. After 21. ... a4 22. g4 g6 23. e5 c7 24. e6 fxe6 25. h6+ g7 26. xf8 xf8 27. f4+ picks up the other rook and White is winning.
|Jan-25-09|| ||Woody Wood Pusher: Wow I got the first move! Soon Sunday's will be a walk in the park!|
|Jan-25-09|| ||soberknight: Yeah I got the first move too, but it was more like "well this must work because otherwise they wouldn't ask us" and I didn't see the continuation.|
|Jan-25-09|| ||WhiteRook48: why are a lot of Sunday puzzles "insane?"|
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