Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Francesco di Castellvi vs Narciso Vinyoles
"Old in Chess" (game of the day Nov-13-2012)
Valencia (1475), Valencia ESP
Scandinavian Defense: Ilundain Variation (B01)  ·  1-0


Annotations by Stockfish (Computer).      [1820 more games annotated by Stockfish]

explore this opening
find similar games more games of Castellvi
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 13 OF 13 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-03-13  Poulsen: You are all wrong - the reason this game is here is the fact, that this is the very first game between two bottles of wine ....

The white wine won ...

Aug-12-13  eightbyeight: I propose that for the first tournament game played in 2475, in honour of 1000 years of recorded chess, the players be required to play the Scandinavian defense.
Aug-27-13  Caissanist: If this game truly was played in 1475 (or even a little later), then it was likely one of the very first games of modern chess (i.e. with the more powerful bishop and queen). That would explain this game being celebrated in poetry, while being a very weak game even by the standards of only a few years later. They were still learning the rules.
Oct-01-13  Conrad93: The game was designed for poetic reasons.

Accuracy was not a concent.

Mar-05-14  Karpova: Dr. Emanuel Lasker, Berlin, May 9, 1912 gives the game score with annotations and also writes:

<Die Regeln der damaligen Zeit scheinen sich von den heutigen nur in dreierlei Hinsicht unterschieden zu haben: 1. Es gab noch keine Rochade, sondern nur den Sprung des Königs. 2. Wer die Dame verlor, verlor damit die Partie. 3. Ein bis in die achte Reihe vordringender Bauer konnte nur eine Figur werden, die bereits geschlagen war.>

(The rules of that time seem to have deviated from todays in only three instances: 1. There was no castling, only the jump of the ♔. 2: He who lost the ♕ lost the game. 3. A ♙ which entered the 8th file could only become a piece which had already been taken.)

Source: 'Pester Lloyd', 1912.05.12, page 9

Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Phony Benoni: First!>

<Phony> Some of us are having a bit of a conversation about puns, and I happened to see I turned that in as a Pun suggestion some years ago. I came here just to be able to link to the game in question and saw you had the same idea. GMTA and so do ours.

Dec-20-14  kamagong24: scandanavian is older than sicilian's defense!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Did White miss the Ne5 trick when B went to g4? It was a lively game in any case. Interesting that they recorded the game.

A Centre-Counter so early on! It is still quite a popular opening and quite sharp for both players...

Sep-04-15  The Kings Domain: It's a marvel that a record of this game survives; for a long time I thought Greco's games were the oldest. It would be great if older games than this will be discovered in the near future.
Feb-07-16  Asabovsobelo: I completely missed 6. Ne6! Thanks KingsCrusher.
Apr-02-16  MariusDaniel: LOL@Narciso's defense
Premium Chessgames Member
  centralfiles: <<Richard Taylor >Did White miss the Ne5 trick when B went to g4?> see karpovas post above about losing the Queen.
That would also explain why not Bxf7+ then Ne5+ that would be an illegal move putting the Q en prise
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <central files> I see. But Bxf7+ would have been o.k. as the Q isn't thus in "check", I presume only the K can be in check hence it is a good move here. But I had forgotten about this game.
Premium Chessgames Member
  centralfiles: after Bxf7 white cannot play Ne5
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: Interesting article about this game and the origin of modern chess:

Valencia and the origin of modern chess

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: This should not be called the Scandinavian Defence but the Valencian Defence or Vinyoles Defence.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: <centralfiles: <<Richard Taylor >Did White miss the Ne5 trick when B went to g4?> see karpovas post above about losing the Queen. That would also explain why not Bxf7+ then Ne5+ that would be an illegal move putting the Q en prise> Still strange, because doesn't 20. Qxd7+ also put the Q en prise?
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Interesting to see the oldest game in any case. Or what may be the oldest.
Mar-30-17  Yigor: Here are evaluations from ChessOK database:

1. e4 (KP, +0.11) d5 (Scandinavian, +0.29) 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 (Ilundain Variation, +0.33) 4. Bc4 Nf6 (+0.37) 5. Nf3 Bg4 (mistake, +1.12 after 6. Ne5) 6. h3 (mistake, +0.33) Bxf3 (+0.48) 7. Qxf3

The sequence of Pawn Structure Classification Codes: 2E -> 2Ed -> 6Ed -> 6Ed1h (pawn height =13)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: <Richard Taylor:>, yes, oldest known game with modern Q and B moves. What's more, the two players, along with their fellow poet and nobelman Bernat Fenollar who commented on the game, were the probably the ones who invented these rules!
Jun-12-17  schnarre: ...Interesting to go over such an old game!
Premium Chessgames Member
  lomez: This might not actually be from 1745. Maybe a few years later.
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: It looks a game played between a king (white) and his court jester (black). Why not 10. ...Rb8 11. Qc6 Rb6, for example? Probably because if black won, it was "Off with his head!".

Lasker's rules cited by <Karpova> are interesting, especially:

2) He who loses the queen, loses the game (surprisingly feminist for the period), and

3) a pawn that reaches the 8th rank can only become a piece which has already been taken (that would avoid a lot of the crazy fumbling around that goes on in blitz games, trying to put tin foil on top of a pawn or something)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: <ChessHigherCat: (surprisingly feminist for the period),>

But then, maybe not. From the date and place, many chess historians believed that the huge expansion in the power of the queen was a tribute to Queen Isabella of Castile, a powerful queen regnant.

Nov-07-17  MariusDaniel: Great chess game from 15th century!
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 13)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 13 OF 13 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
Great old game, lots of history here
from Scandinavian Defense by KFitzgerald
Mighty Queen Mate (Example #1) 21.Qd8# 1-0 (???)
from Checkmate: Checkmate Patterns by CoachTatiana
Shortest walk before collapse - 1st. ever rec. game.
from The Walking Addiction by sevenseaman
Perhaps the Oldest Recorded Game of Chess
from Miscellaneous Delights by The Kings Domain
asiltd's favorite games
by asiltd
Scandinavian at this time in Barcelona ?
from Chess, chess and again chess .... by arielbekarov
Stapp's favorite games
by Stapp
Oldest Recorded Game of Chess
from Memento by Jaredfchess
MariusDaniel's favorite games
by MariusDaniel
THE OLDEST GAME that is recorded!!
from sumant 9's favorite games by sumant 9
Exchange sacs - 1
by obrit
BobgJ's favorite games
by BobgJ
Francesco di Castellvi
from ! Miscellaneous games by Qindarka
from Jimen1 by Jimen
classic games
by eqvilibrium
Maybe the oldest recorded game of chess
from CCounter Puncher Popped Fredthebear by fredthebear
Perhaps the oldest recorded game of chess
from 021Club by fredthebear
dharopa's favorite games
by dharopa
Oldest game in database
from Game of the Days by hidude

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC