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Gioachino Greco vs NN
Miscellaneous Game (1620), ?, rd 1
Italian Game: Classical. Greco Gambit Greco Variation (C54)  ·  1-0


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Given 283 times; par: 22 [what's this?]

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sac: 10.Qb3 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-18-06  jamesmaskell: Greco played in Sicilians in four games and won every one of them, according to the database.
Apr-18-06  who: Greco won every game he played according to the database. It seems many of his games were composed and who knows how many games weren't recorded.
Sep-30-06  AbhinavAsthana: I've heard that 10.Ba3 is a book win. Please, Can anyone explain me how?
Sep-30-06  nescio: <AbhinavAsthana: I've heard that 10.Ba3 is a book win. Please, Can anyone explain me how?>

The win is clear after 10...Bxa1: D Heisman vs D Fennick, 1967

But there are some other Black moves after which there is no forced win for White, although he has the better chances.

10...d5 C Corte vs Julio Bolbochan, 1946

10...d6 Sascha Schiffers vs Mi Reinert, 1999

10...Qf6 E H Reinhardt vs A Maccioni, 1946 (11.Rc1! Keres)

10...Ne7 11.Qb3! Keres

Oct-30-06  AbhinavAsthana: <nescio> Thank You For those Games. Sorry for such a late 'thanks'. Actually, I was out on my holidays and was away from chess and
Dec-05-06  bakunian: I think after 12...Nxd4 white have no more game.
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: I think black wins with 18...Qd6: 19. Bxe7+ Kxe7 20. Qf7+ (20. Bxd5 Rf8) Kd8 21. Qxg7 Rf8.
Dec-05-06  sneaky pete: <al wazir> After 18... Qd6 19.Be5+ .. wins.
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <sneaky pete>: Oops. From now on just call me NN.
Jan-20-07  wolfmaster: NN lasted a little longer in this game than in most of the games he plays against Greco.
Jan-20-07  laskereshevsky: HELLO
<WOLFMASTER> without polemics, of course,

listen me;
"we cant be shore talking about "MISTER NN",
to deal with "HE IS" or "THEY ARE"....isnt it?!

Jun-28-07  gloomunster: These games are probably fabricated, the moves made by his opponents in most of the games are not practical and just happen to be convenient for Greco.

In short, they aren't really practical traps. Except for the q Gambit accepted rook sac trap.

Nov-27-07  The beginner: <Bakunian>

..12Nxd4 is meet by 13 Qa3+

White should be winning here.

13 ..Kxf7
14 Bxd8 ..Rxd8
15 Rxa1 ..

Material is even. White has Q for R+B+ 2Pawns. Black is not developed, and his king is wide open. I think with correct play white cant lose this.

Dec-19-07  2021: <kevin86>

Szabo vs T Ristoja, 1979

Dec-19-07  2021: 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.0-0 Bxc3 9.d5 Bf6! 10.Re1 Ne7 11.Rxe4 d6 12.Bg5 Bxg5 13.Nxg5 h6! 14.Qe2 hxg5 15.Re1 Be6 16.dxe6 f6 17.Re3 c6 18.Rh3 Rxh3 19.gxh3 g6 20.Qd2 Kf8 (NCO)
Oct-23-09  Wayne Proudlove: This is good one in my opinion, I look forward to studying it this weekend. It's a sad time in my life, things aren't going the way I want them to, I'm actually watching romantic movies and listening to love songs, things about believing and hanging on and all that, well, I'm not too excited about this weekend other than analysing some chess games.
Jan-27-11  technical draw: < Note this oddity:no rook ever moved in this game;technically,castling is a king move!>

I beg to differ. The white rook on a1 moved from a1 to the box. (or bag).

May-20-11  janatoli2: <AbhinavAsthana> I think it is a good idea not to believe people which always talk about "book wins". In the below mentioned game C Corte vs Julio Bolbochan 13... Rb8 and 14... Qc8 are simply blunders, in the game Sascha Schiffers vs Mi Reinert, 11.Bxf7+ (11. Rc1 is better - see e.g. Schoepe-Bock) is weak and 15... Na5 a disaster. Keres contributed A LOT to opening theory but not everything he mentioned was correct though. BTW until Bernstein suggested 10.... d5! after Greco´s 10.Qb3 everybody thought that this was a "book win" ...
Aug-09-11  50movesaheadofyou: Nice classical game. played four centuries ago!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Noflaps: Historians, some of them, may insist that the Greco games were never actually played, and are mere analysis, but I am skeptical of such pronouncements. More than one of them feels very much like a real game, with slight inaccuracies by both sides before the final result. Greco was merely the Morphy of his day, absent the gumbo. Surely, as a Louisiana boy, Morphy enjoyed gumbo. Didn't he?
Sep-09-11  Robert Hill: I learned this one from my chess instuctor, I can do so far only this game blindfolded.
May-16-14  Kmihir: Please help What's wrong with 13 Re1?doesnt that win immediately
May-18-14  Kmihir: I had this game in the Guess the move and I was playing white ... I am still trying to figure why the system said 13 Re1 -- is a inferior move and deducted some points
Apr-10-15  MarkFinan: <Kmihir: I had this game in the Guess the move and I was playing white ... I am still trying to figure why the system said 13 Re1 -- is a inferior move and deducted some points>

Me too! And did you see 12.e5 coming? I spent 5 mins tops and had points deducted but still got 30 and the par's 23. I love these old games though, they sure don't play like NN no more!?

Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: NN could have kept the queen and extended play a couple of more moves if instead of 18...gxf6:

<18...g6 19.Bh4+ Kg7 20.Qf6+ Kh6 21.Bg5+ Kh5 22.g4#>

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