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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-09-13
 | | FSR: Houdini 3 gives 37...Kh7 a Columbus-like assessment of -14.92. It says that 37...Rxg2+! mates in 7, 37...h5 mates in 8, 37...b4 is -16.16, 37...Rb2 is -19.97, etc. Even 37...g5 is -16.08. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | gofer: Well the start is obvious, but there is a catch because white has a little mate threat so
black needs to be careful after the easy bit...
<37 ... Rxg2+>
<38 Qxg2 Qxf4+>
39 Qg3 Rc2+
40 Kh1 Qf1+ (not Qxg3 41 Rb8+ Kh7 42 Rh8#!!!)
41 Qg1 Qf3+
42 Qg2 Qxg2#
39 Kg1 Rc1+
40 Qf1 Qg3+
41 Kh1 Rxf1#
39 Kh1 Rc1+
40 Qg1 Qf3+
41 Kh2 Rc2+
42 Qg2 Qxg2#
~~~
OTB, as white, I would have still played out to...
<37 ... Rxg2+>
<38 Qxg2 Qxf4+>
<39 Qg3 Rc2+>
<40 Kh1 ...>
Hoping for the swindle, especially if my opponent was
short on time... |
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| Jan-09-13 | | gofer: Your black, you've got two seconds left on the clock, its your 40th move...
click for larger viewWhat are you going to play?! |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Abdel Irada: <gofer: Your black, you've got two seconds left on the clock, its your 40th move... What are you going to play?!>
Simple. I will play 40. ...Qf1† 41. Qg1, Qf3†, watch my flag fall, and bitterly regret that I'm playing 45/120 instead of 40/120. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | viking78: <gofer: Your black, you've got two seconds left on the clock, its your 40th move... What are you going to play?!>
I'd stop the clock asking for the reff to give a draw, which he would not, but in the meantine I'll see it's forced moves for checkmate in 3, so 3 moves are easy to be played in 2 secs and I would win :) |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Abdel Irada : 37. ...Qe3!> I don't think this leads to a GOOT position. It might win but its tougher than the game line as there are more variations to evaluate and will require technique. Consider 37...Qe3 38. Rxb5 Rc1 39. Rb2
Now black can give sequence of checks using his rook and queen but the king seems to escape to the h file. White can also survive the pawn advance by sacrificing the Bishop if needed which in turn allows attack on the Black king. Maybe the silicon monsters can give a clearer assessment of this line. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Bartimaeus>: On further examination, you're right. My line does win, but more slowly than the sacrifice. Worse, the fastest win after 37. ...Qe3 38. Rxb5 is actually to transpose back to the sacrifice line. Your 39. Rb2 is stronger than it looked.
All I can really say for my line in retrospect is that it beats getting mated on h7 with rook and bishop. :-S |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Bartimaeus: <Abdel : ... it beats getting mated on h7 with rook and bishop. :-S> When I saw first saw this position today, I got all gung-ho about playing Rxg2+ and blowing white off the board. Then, when I saw Rb8+, my state resembled that of a flat tire :) Love for the spectacular is an ever-present danger for us. |
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Jan-09-13
 | | paulalbert: I saw white's mate threat and just went with 37...g5 to avoid it and still threaten Rxg2ch ( which was my first reaction until I saw white's threat) ; g5 apparently also wins, but the immediate Rxg2ch and then Qxf4ch is clearly much more direct. Need to look not just a second time but a third time to find the best move! |
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Jan-09-13
 | | keypusher: Took me a moment to see why 37...Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 Rc2 didn't work! Then I tried to think of other moves, but the mate after 37....Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 Qxf4+ eventually came to me because of the similarity to the finish of this old game, which I'd looked at a few days ago: Chigorin vs Lasker, 1895 Sometimes studying the classics pays off. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | James D Flynn: Black is the exchange and a passed pawn up but his R on c8 can only leave the bank rank with a check else the White R will mate on h8. White’s Q is tied to the defense of the pawn on f4 but on his move he threatens Qh4 and Qxh6, if Black replies h5 Qg5 then Kh7 defends , however Be7 and Qf6 will make the defense of f7 very difficult.
37…..Rxg2+ 38. Qxg2 Qxf4+ 39.Kh1(if Qg3 Rc2+ 40.Kh1 Qf1+ 41.Qg1 Qf3 42,Qg2 Qxg2# or if Kg1 Qxg3+ and the mates on f2 or h2 nexr) Rc1+ 43.Qg1 Qf3+ 44.Kh2 Rc2+ 45.Qg2 Qxg2# |
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| Jan-09-13 | | snakebyt: A challenge for sure. I got RXg2+ then QXf4 Blk wins. Seems like the first to move in these games always wins?! |
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| Jan-09-13 | | kevin86: The key is that black must force mate or face one himself 40...♕xg3?? white mates in two! |
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| Jan-09-13 | | goldenbear: I missed it... I had g5 immediately, which I think leads to a winning endgame, but Rxg2+ is a lot easier. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | SuperPatzer77: <keypusher: Took me a moment to see why 37...Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 Rc2 didn't work! Then I tried to think of other moves, but the mate after 37....Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 Qxf4+ eventually came to me because of the similarity to the finish of this old game, which I'd looked at a few days ago: Chigorin vs Lasker, 1895> <keypusher> Gee, you have an excellent memory!! Yes, it's one of Emmanuel Lasker's greatest games. I really love this classic game. Thanks, <keypusher>
SuperPatzer77 |
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| Jan-09-13 | | David2009: Velimirovic vs A Zontakh, 1998 Black 37...? Velimirovic sems to have taken one risk too many this time: 37...Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 forced to avoid mate and now
38...Qxf4+! (but NOT 38...Rc2?? Rb8+ and it is White who wins) 39.Qg3 (if 39.Kh1 Rc8+ 40.Qg1 Rxg1+ 41.Kxg1 g5 and the Black King escapes White's mating net) 39...Rc2+ 40. Kh1 (if 40.Kg1 Qxg3 is check) Qf1+ 41.Qf1 Qxh3+ forces mate. Time to
check:
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Here's the puzzle colours reversed:
click for larger view
Playing through against Crafty End Game Trainer (link http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...) I see that Black has better after capturing the White Queen on g1: Black can pick up the Rb6 with the fork 41...Qe3+. Postscript after reading the kibitzes: I see I missed a mate in the Qg3 defence line. Ah well - a win is a win - except that I lose on time regularly in internet chess, so I really need to spot forced mates. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Moonwalker: I went for 37...h5. According to FSR it's mate in 8 (which I didn't see) but happy at wasn't a losing move! |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Kikoman: <Rxg2+!> of course. |
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Jan-09-13
 | | chrisowen: Tide me see king h2 one leg in boot find a kangarook c2 free g2 preen see board it each in chalk engine up ride a lion in c8 elevate accomplice in every it's and castle path to king bin fritter 37.Rxg2+ honour in crazy it kerb in crawling apre Dragoljub is a forced in cheers one probings 38.Qxg2 or Kxg2 spring give bay it is con garrison 37...Rxg2+ balled i do it hob carthage 38.Qxg2 Qxf4+ in eg off yer germaine 38.Qxg2 if tempt a king take
g2 then gander goose air accolade 38...rc2+ in quest it pin e2 cinch ego buildings 39...qxe2+ after Kg3 punch in also 40...rc3+ go crook elevation in a Kh4 when i bung 41...Qh5# feather in g4 undulate down sporting gesture it her in f4 check off light it now in a fork hacking browse a rig rovercork 39.Kh1 rc1+ in c8 a pin f4 oak in g1 king rookc1 etc path to king free queen interfer on g1 in try ogle 40...Qf3+ a sad finch h2 open fold mind it took in electric pink 41...rc2+ boogie on down cfile go over 42.qf2 fudge in craving said glossed it over tick in 42...Qxf2+ it rescue in victory it is again building free for 43.kh1 rookc1#. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | whiteshark: <37...Rxg2+ 38.Qxg2 Qxf4+>, and that's it. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | Patriot: <<Bartimaeus>: <Patriot : 39.Kh1 Rc1+ 40.Qg1 Rxg1+ 41.Kxg1 Qe3+ and 42...Qxb6> Better is 39. Kh1 Rc1+ 40. Qg1 Qf3+ 41. Kh2 Rc2+ 42. Qg2 Qxg2# Preferable to end the story.> I agree that is best. Since I knew my line was winning easily, I didn't search for a "more winning" line. |
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Jan-09-13
| | FSR: <Moonwalker: I went for 37...h5. According to FSR it's mate in 8 (which I didn't see) but happy at wasn't a losing move!> It's only mate in 8 because after the queen moves (say 38.Qg5) Black plays 38...Rxg2+! 39.Qxg2 Qxf4+. |
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| Jan-09-13 | | RookFile: Nice puzzle, very appropriate for real game conditions. |
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| Jan-10-13 | | Rhialto: <Abdel Irada:
37. ...Qe3!
A dual-purpose move (and a fine example of a "GOOT"): attacking the rook on b6 and the critical invasion point g1.> I don't think that qualifies as an alternative solution. It wins, because "everything" wins, but invading g1 is not that great - in the lines you give White is very helpful by blocking his natural defense of K to h4, pawn to g3 and leave the Q on g4. Moreover it is not so great to threaten the rook, as White will happily sacrifice it on e6. Consider the weird defense 37...Qe3 38.Bd8. Now 38...Rxd8 39.Rxe6 and the comp says 39...Rdd2 wins, but only after a whole bunch of checks. Meanwhile 38...Rc1? 39.Rxe6 Qg1+ 40.Kg3 R1c3+ 41.Kh4 Qe1+ 42.g3 is still losing for White but it's now much harder than at the starting position, as 42...Qxg3+ doesn't work with the Bishop on d8. This analysis is all irrelevant as, after 37...Qe3 38.Bd8 (or after 38.Bd8 Rxd8 39.Rxe6) or most other lines, Black can still play ...Rxg2+ and revert to the game idea. But that makes 37...Qe3 quite pointless. |
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| Jan-10-13 | | Abdel Irada: Thank you, <Rhialto>. I already recanted that "alternative" solution as flawed. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 37...Rxg2+