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Goran M Todorovic vs Zdenko Kozul
Yugoslavia (1988), Brezovica YUG
Sicilian Defense: Velimirovic Attack (B89)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

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sac: 22.Bxg7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <UdayanOwen: I am a little confused about your line 22.Qg5 e4 (???) I assume you meant to write 22...e5, is that right? Even if so, can't black just play 22...f6, refusing to give up anything? Finally, is Bb6 actually a threat, given that it doesn't trap the black queen (which has the b5 square)?>

Yes. I meant e5. I do not have much recent practise with chess notation, so I regularly confuse ranks 4 and 5, although I usually correct the confusion by editing carefully before posting. Your other comments are right on the mark. I thought Sunday would have a tougher key move than Bxg7. I have started timing myself, to force myself to calculate less, and I was too excited by a will-of-the-wisp. I sure hope it does not happen to me over the board :)

By the way, I am impressed by your ability to calculate, but more particularly by your decisions on when not to calculate. Your posts have been very helpful to me this week, and I look forward to reading more of them.

Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  InspiredByMorphy: Are there consequences for 19. ...Qxd6?
It is interesting how in the final position this pawn on d6 helps seal the deal.
Dec-16-07  CaptGeorge: The B sac seems the obvious and usual choice especially since h7 is weak, but I don't see any way to mate after that.

I'm not going to spend any more time on this "insane" puzzle - too difficult for my "old" brain!

Dec-16-07  UdayanOwen: Wouldpusher -- Your line after the suggested 27...Be8 instead of 27...h6 is definitely winning:

27...Be8 28.Re5 (threatening Re7 and Q mates on g7) 28...Bf7 (28...Qd8 29.Rf7 Qxf7 and the d-pawn will win a piece) 29.Re7 Rf8, and now simply 30.d7 . Black is helpless against the threat of 31.Rxf7 Rxf7 32.d8=Q.

Dec-16-07  CaptGeorge: Hey! It didn't look that difficult...maybe I should have studied it longer. I overestimated "insane"!
Dec-16-07  willyfly: I don't spend too much time trying to solve Sunday puzzles because I'm usually very tired after work and Sunday puzzles are - well - insane. I took a shot at this one and got 22 ♗xg7 ♔xg7 but then I tried 23 ♕g5+ which didn't work so I didn't get the rest.
Dec-16-07  UdayanOwen: Thanks for the compliments, Johnlspouge... I also like reading your posts because of the rich strategic understanding, and ability to use this to guide your concrete analysis.

Oh, and yes, I nearly forgot......Chess still @#$%ing rocks!!!!!!!!!!!

But if only it would stop keeping me up until sunrise, when I have a family and studies and things to attend to. This kibitzing is totally engrossing, and it is making me think I'd really love to write a chess book...

Hmmm.... How many more sleepless nights can my body take?

For chess? Hundreds

Dec-16-07  MostlyAverageJoe: Hey, <UdayanOwen>, if you really want to lose some sleep, join Chessgames Challenge: The World vs G Timmerman, 2007 - I think you would make a great addition to the team.

Speaking of people who would make great additions to the team, I am surprised that <dzechiel> with his CC background did not show up there yet.

Anyone else with too much time on their hands, check out the above game, too.

Dec-16-07  foursteps: After 13. Nf5, if then 13...exf5 14. Bxc5 dxc5 15. Nd5 Qa5 16. gxf5.... Leaving white with an attacking position.

Does this continuation make sense or was it some other reason black did not play 13...exf5?

Dec-16-07  solidricin: Why do you guys post these long explanations of your thought process? No one cares.
Dec-16-07  Komapsimnita: <solidricin> I work 12 hrs nights. The longer the post the better 4 me :)
Dec-16-07  MostlyAverageJoe: <solidricin: Why do you guys post these long explanations of your thought process? No one cares.>

On the contrary, many people (those capable of understanding them) do.

Nobody forces you to read them.

Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <InspiredByMorphy> <Are there consequences for 19. ...Qxd6? It is interesting how in the final position this pawn on d6 helps seal the deal.>

He should have played that move. It looks like he was looking to set up an attack centered on the knight on a4 as the position after 21.. Bd7 shows. Instead, he left a passed pawn on the board and took his queen right out of the match.

<MindBoggle> <22.Bxg7 is an obvious try, since h7 will become very weak, and I quickly found 22.-,Kxg7 23.Rh3,Rh8 24.Qh6+,Kg8 25.Rh5,f6 26.Rdxd5,exd5 27.Qxf6 and stopped, evaluating the position as winning. While this is true, I should've probably continued my calculations a little bit longer since this is a problem and not a game. I can't claim an unquestioned solve since I didn't break down 27.-,h6 from the starting position, but only when I got there.>

You should not have seen 27… h6, because it’s worse for black. It loses a lot more material than 27…Be8. In fact, at the point where black resigns (after 31 Rg3) white forces mate in 2 moves. Now, if 27…Be8 white has to work out 28 Re5 (not Rg5+) and a few other necessary follow up moves before he’s in the clear.

And, as an aside,those kibitzers that prefer “closure” in the puzzles should love this one. Every move from 22 through 26 is the best move both sides could have made, ending with a clear material advantage for white.

Dec-16-07  alphee: Got the 22.♗g7 ♔xg7 23 23.♕g5 ♔h8 sequence and some of the following moves but totally missed the 23.♖h3 option. In fact I didn't look long enougth and forgot this simple principle "when you have a good move (here Sequence), look for a better one"!
Dec-16-07  MindBoggle: <Jimfromprovidence> <You should not have seen 27… h6, because it’s worse for black. It loses a lot more material than 27…Be8.>

I didn't search for any moves, I just stopped my calculations and evaluated the position, just like in a game. After Qxf6 it's clear that white has a winning attack.

Dec-16-07  DukeAlba: Yes!! I finally got my first Sunday Puzzle!! 22. Bxg7 was actually the first move that I picked up.

I would have to say however, that I was surprised at how straightforward this Sunday was... it looks like the easiest one i've ever seen.

I've noticed that many puzzles involve Bishop sacs that help drive out black's king from his castled position, its a recurrent theme.

Dec-16-07  UdayanOwen: solidricin -- I post these long comments first and foremost because I enjoy the creative process of writing up my analysis... It's very good for my chess and I wouldn't particularly care if no-one read the posts.

I think your comment that no-one cares can be empirically discounted... For example, consider the next two posts after your one that I am responding to. I have only been posting on chessgames tactics puzzles kibitzing forum for about a week, and have only posted long messages, but over the several nights that I have contributed, I have had a lot of people express appreciation for my contributions. Check for example Johnlspouge's response to one of my posts above...

Also note that MostlyAverageJoe, whom I have had spirited debates with about topics in my long posts, has indicated above he thinks I'd make a great addition to the team in the World vs Timmerman game... I think it's because he has read my analyses and thinks they are pretty good.

If you were on the night of the Nunn vs Hmadi game, you would have seen that one of my long posts generate a stack of debate about the balance between calculation and positional judgement when deciding on a move, indicating many readers were tuned in. A lot of people also read and post intelligent criticisms of the analyses in my posts.

When you say that no-one cares, I think you are really saying that YOU don't care. I am a postgraduate psychology student, and in psychology we call this projection - when a person assumes that how they see the world is how everybody else sees it. Projection leads to errors, as this post clarifies.

Not sure why you are even on here, because you being oblivious to some of the points I have argued here seems to indicate you don't read any of the posts that extend beyond the second sentence... I'm sorry if I have offended you with my long posts... next time I will keep it to 2 sentences and hence within you cognitive capabilities

Sorry for the low blow but I find your ill-considered post a little insulting....

Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <solidricin> You can change your preferences to avoid specific people's posts.

I hope you got this far.

Dec-16-07  aazqua: I really thought this was pretty easy for a Sunday because there's only one particularly interesting move (b*p) and the rook follow is obvious as well as it threatens to move the queen in. The later rook sac is again obvious to remove the pawn defender. I'd say every stage was pretty simple, although it is a lot to put together all at once.
Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <MindBoggle> <I can’t claim an unquestioned solve since I didn't break down 27.-,h6 from the starting position, but only when I got there.>

<jimfromprovidence>You should not have seen 27… h6, because it’s worse for black.

<MindBoggle> <I didn't search for any moves, I just stopped my calculations and evaluated the position, just like in a game. After Qxf6 it's clear that white has a winning attack.>

I agree completely, so why mention 27…h6 at all? What’s to break down?

You brought up that bad move, I responded to it.

Dec-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: I think my problem is that I give up on these puzzles too easily if I can't find the answer within 30 seconds or so
Dec-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For the Dec 16th "insanely difficult puzzle solution," the immediate demolition of pawn structure with 22. Bxg7! begins the combination.

While finding the initial move may not have been extremely difficult, finding the followup moves was mind bending.

Here's a break-out with the help of Fritz 8:

<22. Bxg7!! Kxg7 23. Rh3!>

White threatens mate-in-two with Qh6+ followed by Qxh7#. He apparently gets nothing better than a draw by perpetual after 23. Qg5+!? Kh8 24. Rxd5! Qxd5! 25. Qf6+ Kg8 26. Rd3 Qc6 (26... Qb5 27. Nb6 Bc6 28. Nd5 Bxd529. Qg5+ Kh8 30. Qf6+ =) 27. Qg5+ Kh8 28. Qf6+ =.

<23... Rh8>

This stops the mate threat, and puts up the most resistance. Leading to a quick mate is 23... f6 24. Qh6+ Kf7 25. Qh5+ Kg7 26. Qxh7#. Also losing quickly is 23... Nf6 24. Qh6+ Kg8 25. Qxf6 Rfc8 26. Rh5 .

<24. Qh6+>

A winning alternative is 24. Qg5+! Kf8 25. Qh6+ Ke8 (25... Kg8 26. Rh5 f6 27. g5 Kf7 28. Rxd5 Qxd5 29. Qxf6+ Kg8 30. g6 Rf8 31. gxh7+ Rxh7 32. Rg5+ Qxg5+ 33. Qxg5+ Rg7 34. Qe3 ) 26. Rxd5! Qxd5 27. Qf6 Qxd6 28. Qxh8+ Qf8 29. Rxh7 .

<24... Kg8 25. Rh5! f6 26. Rdxd5! exd5 27. Qxf6 h6 28. Qg6+>

Another winning idea is 28. g5! Qd8 (28... Be8 29. gxh6 Ra7 30. Rg5+ Bg6 31. Rxg6+ Kh7 32. Rg7+ Rxg7 33. Qxg7#) 29. Qg6+ Kf8 30. Rh4! .

<28... Kf8 29. Rh3!>

Still winning is 29. g5! Qd8 30. Rh4 .

<29... Bxg4 30. Qxg4 Rh7>

Also losing for Black are 30... Ra7 31. Rf3+ Ke8 32. Qe6+ Kd8 33. Qf6+ Kd7 34. Qxh8 and 30... Ke8 31. Re3+ Kd8 32. Qg7 Re8 33. Rxe8+ Kxe8 34. Qe7#.

<31. Rg3> 1-0

Black resigns as he faces mate in one or two moves. One possibility is 31...Ke8 32. Qe6+ Kd8 33. Rg8#.

Dec-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I got the first move,based on this week's theme-lol.

Black can avoid mate on the move,but is mated in two!

Dec-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <solidricin>: Don't get upset because everybody dumped on you. You see, *everybody* didn't dump on you. That's just a poorly chosen figure of speech. Occasionally someone posts a poorly expressed thought in a careless moment, as I just did. We all understood what you meant.
Dec-18-07  UdayanOwen: Careless expression or not, solidricin's comment was a needless insult. If he doesn't like long posts he doesn't have to read them. Why criticize people who put long posts on when some people gain from them and nobody loses out?

Having said that, I have no hard feelings. I'll be friends with solidricin if he doesn't hate me now.

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