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Wang Yue vs Magnus Carlsen
M-Tel Masters (2009), Sofia BUL, rd 5, May-17
Gruenfeld Defense: Brinckmann Attack (D82)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: 21.Rfd1! well done. There was no reason for Yue to take the draw offer.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: Carlsen lost time with his Queen Rook. On the same time, Yue improved the position of his pieces with natural moves. White has a slight pressure.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <tamar: Is this a draw offer? And what are the rules about repetitions so early?> FYI, even with Sofia rules in effect, draws by repetition are allowed at any stage of the game. Is had to be this way, since there are many positions in which the side who breaks the repetition will lose.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: 21...Rb8 Not a glamorous place for the rook, but part of the deal when getting doubled pawns. You end up with awkward but perhaps not losing formations.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: 21...Rb8 is defending b7, if White plays Bf3.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: thanks <Sneaky> There was a discussion on the US Championship coverage, and someone said, not Sutovsky, that an arbiter had to be consulted, but not sure if that was an informed statement.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: Yue could double Rooks on the open d file, either with 22.Rc2, either with 22.Rd2.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  PhilFeeley: <Mateo: Carlsen lost time with his Queen Rook.> Are the clocks right here? Mine say 28 minutes for Wang and 1:04 for Carlsen.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: I thought this is the kind of position Wang Yue would play forever, but apparently he goes for threefold repetition...
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: If Carlsen plays 25...Rc6, it's a draw. Tame play from Yue.
May-17-09  madlydeeply: these open games must be stressful to play against Carlsen. all that piece activity has serious blowback potential
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Mateo: <PhilFeeley: <Mateo: Carlsen lost time with his Queen Rook.> Are the clocks right here? Mine say 28 minutes for Wang and 1:04 for Carlsen.> Yes.
May-17-09  talisman: double rooks now on the d file?
May-17-09  talisman: guess not.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: Wang needed an easy draw to recover from yesterday.
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <tamar: There was a discussion on the US Championship coverage, and someone said ... that an arbiter had to be consulted, but not sure if that was an informed statement.> That sounds reasonable on the face of it, but suppose you had a position where players are repeating moves, and yet one side really could try to be gutsy and refuse the draw. Can an arbiter can't force somebody to "be gutsy"? For starters, how would they decide which player should have to deviate? Each player is effectively saying "I'm not gonna break the repetition... YOU break the repetition."

Oh, and to make this comment on the topic of the game, let me add:

It's a draw.

May-17-09  madlydeeply: pawn weaknesses are easy to see...what is baffling for me is when pieces aren't deployed correctly and get tangled up...Is Carlsen especially good at taking advantage of that sort of thing? That's the impression I get.
May-17-09  furrer: Lets go to Ivanchuk - Topalov!
May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <Sneaky> That was Benjamin's point, you can't force someone to play an inferior move.

The trouble is players will now focus on repetitions to get their rest days.

May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: An arbiter could, I presume, reject an absurd draw such as 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng1 Ng8 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Ng1 ... at which point black announces his intention of playing 4...Ng8, bringing about the starting position for the 3rd time -- and claims a draw.

Of course, once you start trying to adjudicate on the legitimacy of a repetition, you're into tricky territory. If the repetition rule is aimed at 'mutual zugzwang' positions -- where neither player has a good alternative to repeating -- then I'd estimate that fully 'legit' draws are very much in a minority.

A related question: does anyone know the shortest possible draw by perpetual check which is *not* simply a threefold repetition in disguise?

May-17-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: Ironically, I had a position *very* like this, as white in a recent tournament game -- a Reti/English with Qb3, ...Qb6, and Qxb6, ...axb6. Although some commentators (eg Roman Dzindzhi) argue that these positions are, in general, better for white -- due to black's b-pawns -- in practice black has scored well, with play on the open a-file being one theme.

In my case, disappointed at my failure to get more from the opening, I offered a draw. And was turned down. My opponent then put me in trouble, and I had to post pieces on some ugly squares to hold onto my pawns. Then I found a way to break out, sacking two pawns to advance a passed one, and I won.

The moral? Anything can happen, and often does.

May-17-09  WhiteRook48: well, the easiest repetition would be 1. Nc3 Nf6 2. Nb1 Ng8 and so on
May-17-09  minasina: ABSOLUTELY LIVE rating statistics: Wang Yue has gained as many rating points as Carlsen has lost! :)
Jun-06-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: <Peligroso Patzer: With 7. dxc4 Carlsen departs from 7. Ne4, which line led to losses by world champions in two famous games. *** >

With the stakes somewhat lower, Carlsen has essayed 7. ... Ne4 today at Ciudad de Leon in a rapid game that (as I write) has reached move #15 (15. b4).

Jun-06-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: Here is a link to the Gruenfeld rapid game played today, which was 1-0 in 45 moves: Wang Yue vs Carlsen, 2009.
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