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Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-03-12 | | agb2002: <LTJ>'s Stockfish lines seem to agree with my impression: after 23.Qd4 the counterattack move 23... Qf5 is preferable to pick another pawn. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | Abdel Irada: <agb2002>: Without benefit of engine, I agree. From my own analysis (above), Black emerges from the ensuing tactical battle with a clear if not winning advantage. Of course, you probably haven't read my novella on the subject, for which you can hardly be blamed. ;-) |
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Oct-03-12
 | | LoveThatJoker: <agb2002> Most definitely! Just as you got my kudos for finding and analyzing the absolute best winning ideas in your solution post on Sunday's problem, my kudos goes to <Abdel Irada> for finding and analyzing the 23...Qf5 idea in his solution post today. LTJ |
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| Oct-03-12 | | Abdel Irada: Thank you, <LTJ>.
Like you, I'm a bit of a perfectionist — okay, more than a bit — and can't let myself claim credit for a complete solution until I've looked at every relevant line I see. Of course, that does have certain costs. As you see with today's post (and Sunday's), it sometimes compels me to write six-part posts, although not with any particular expectation that anyone will be patient enough to read them in their entirety. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | zb2cr: 22. ,,, Bxb3 leads to a short King hunt if White retakes with 23. cxb3, Rxb3+. a. 24. Ka1(a2), Qa4#.
b. 24. Kc2, Qc4+.
b1. 25. Kd2, Rb2+.
b1.a. 25. Ke1, Qe2#.
b1.b. 25. Ke3, Re2#.
b2. 25. Kd1, Rd3+ wins the Queen and leaves Black with Q+P vs. R+B. White has numerous ways to decline the sacrifice, though, and I lack the time to analyze those. |
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Oct-03-12
| | LoveThatJoker: <Abdel Irada> I realize that I just sent over my kudos - which is most defintely still there for the fact that you spotted 23...Qf5! This established, I just checked out your lines with Stockfish - something which, as you know, I like to do on my own. Here is what it has to say regarding your output:
The 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6 line actually leads to an objectively lower winning evaluation (-1.29 depth of 23) from the engine as compared to the ...Bd5+ and ...Bxg2 idea. It confirms that you were better off going for the 28...Rb1+ 29. Kd2 Rxh1 idea in this line - which is fully winning for Black. This said, your evaluation that it is a  is most definitely correct. LTJ
PS. I've had Stockfish "get to work" on some of my lines as well. Just check out what it did to one of my lines on Saturday: R Malpert vs B Rind, 1992. At least you correctly evaluated your position. As you can see, I was too optimistic on that one particular line on Saturday, and Stockfish just proceeded to teach me something there. Furthermore, I was like 9 or 10 moves in by that point! <Moral> Stockfish can be one stern, yet excellent Chess professor. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | Abdel Irada: <LTJ>: I think engines can be useful tools, but it is also possible to give them too much credit. There are positions in which I simply wouldn't trust them: They're great when they have clearcut tactical variations to analyze, but their evaluations of positions before and sometimes even after such tactical melees can be suspect. |
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Oct-03-12
| | LoveThatJoker: <Abdel Irada> I've heard the engine argument before. In this case, Stockfish is giving nearly a full pawn advantage to the ...Bxd5+/...Bxg2 line over the 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6 line; furthermore, to its credit, it is confirming that your evaluation for 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6 is indeed . All in all, I also prefer the ...Bxd5+/...Bxg2 over 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6. Here's why:
...Bxd5+/...Bg2: White has lost his g-pawn creating a static weakness to play against in that White now has more pawn islands and an isolated h-pawn. In fact, Stockfish produces an immediately winning line here via 24. Ka1 Qxd4+ 25. Nxd4 Bxg2 26. Rg1 Bd5 27. Rg3 Rb4 28. Rd3 Be4 29. Rd2 c5 30. f3 Rxd4 31. Rxd4 cxd4 32. fxe4  . Note that this line is not to say that that's the end of the story, as possibly an improvement is there somewhere, but it is certainly at least extremely plausible. It came up with this line after 9 minutes of thought. To be fair, I'm going to do the same for the 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6 line to see what Stockfish produces after the same amount of time. LTJ |
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Oct-03-12
| | LoveThatJoker: <9 minutes for 27. Kc1 Ba2 28. Qe3 Qxe6> 29. Qxe6 Rxe6 30. Nd4 Re4 31. Nb5 Bc4 32. Nc3 Rd4 33. Re1 Rd7 34. Kb2 Kg6 35. Ra1 a6 36. Nd1 Bb5 37. Kc3 . Although Stockfish keeps the eval as , it is clear that Black is making definite progress here. Note that this was Stockfish's first line after nine minutes, just as I presented Stockfish's first line after nine minutes for ...Bxd5+/...Bxg2. LTJ
PS. All this said, you did a great job finding 23...Qf5! In my opinion, you deserve serious kudos for having found, considered and posted that in your solution post - along with anyone else who will find it...if there is anyone else! |
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| Oct-03-12 | | KingV93: This one was readily apparent. White has nothing going and all of Blacks pieces are attacking the King so...use a sac to crash through the gates and mate! |
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| Oct-03-12 | | Castleinthesky: A little bit of thinking, but I found it and worked out the mate, thanks to my trusty search engine "Goldfish." |
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Oct-03-12
 | | doubledrooks: Interesting comments today!
I found the game continuation from 22...Bxb3 through 26...Re2# And after 22...Bxb3 23. Qd4 I went with the simple 23...Bd5+ 24. Ka1 Qxd4 25. Nxd4 Bxg2, which Stockfish(courtesy of <LoveThatJoker>) rates as -2.22. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | agb2002: <Abdel Irada: <agb2002>: Without benefit of engine, I agree. From my own analysis (above), Black emerges from the ensuing tactical battle with a clear if not winning advantage. Of course, you probably haven't read my novella on the subject, for which you can hardly be blamed. ;-)
>
I have to confess that I only read the second half of your 4th part.
Unfortunately, I can't count with many time breaks to spend at CGs. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | kevin86: Wow! The kid got clobbered! |
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| Oct-03-12 | | James D Flynn: White is a P up but Blacks pieces are more active. The obvious 22……Bxb3 looks very dangerous as well as opening the White Ks fortress it prevents the simplifying sac of a P by Qf6+..
22……Bxb3 23.Kb2(if Ka1(if 23.cxb3 Rxb3+ 24.Kc2 Qc4+ 25.Kd1 Rb1+ 26.Kd2 Rb2+ 27.Kd1(if Ke3 Re2# or Ke1 Qe2#) Qe2+ 28.Kc1 Qc2#) Qa4+ 29.Kb2 Qa2+ 30.Kc3 Qxc2+ 31.Kd4 Rb4+ 32.Ke3 Re4#) Bd5+ 24.Kc3 Rc6+ 25,Kd3 Qe5+ 26.Kd2 Rxc2+ 27.Kd1 Qe2# |
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Oct-03-12
 | | LIFE Master AJ: 22...BxP/b3! looks like a good move ... |
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Oct-03-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: Ha, got it. (I wasn't 100% sure, I had a feeling that I was missing something.) |
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| Oct-03-12 | | BOSTER: Sometimes only the small mistake can decide the game. This is the pos. after black 21...Kg7 with white to play.
click for larger view After 22.Qf6+ Qxf6 23.exf6+ Kxf6 24.cxb3 the position is mostly equal. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | James D Flynn: 22...Bxb3 23.Qd4 Qf5 24.Qc3 Bxc2+ 25.Ka1 Qd3 26.Qxd3 Bxd3 and White should certainly play on but with 2 passed Q-side pawns and B against N and Whites K stuck on the a file,the endgame looks won for Black. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | M.Hassan: <jffun 1958:If White declines the bishop sacrifice then black forces mate: 23. Ka1 Qa4+ 24. Kb2 Qa2+ 25. Kc3 Qxc2+ 26. Kd4 Rb4+ 27. Ke3 Re4# Nice!> The line I have posted, I did not see a forced mate in it.I Repeat it in here: 22.....Bxd3 23.Qd4 Bd5+ 24.Ka1 Qf5 25.e6+ f6 26.Qc5 Qxe6 27.Qxc7+ Kh6 Black gains a pawn and there is plenty of room to play. |
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Oct-03-12
 | | chrisowen: Yin and yang bowled over from it each crack b3 ritzy braving rook bag or guess at in e6xb3 when finding f6 covered in bunker mitigate king up light would do best by checking immediately f6 instead a2xb3. |
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Oct-03-12
| | chrisowen: I juicy it e6 in bishop rook i a phone call away it reach in really it drumming at either in d4 to break up rook queen combination or cxb3 in gentle touch black have mating me six-move dilligent net, in see aether d5 lust queen forces the mistake c3 d5 giving rope to hang mighty b7 asunder aim b3 eg queen flinch in babbling b-rook brother bind find it martini hour in cash the chips again e6xb3 23.cxb3 probing timber fold in Rxb3+ kingc2 as in open shut rook descend ail queen on slight it heroic in just again he see torque in c4+ kingd2 fab mind rookb2+ kingd1 jitter bug learn in e2 cooking c1 peel it hook in c2 ;). |
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| Oct-03-12 | | stst: Quite some variations. Offer two courses:
(A)Direct Kill:
22...... Rxb3
23.cxb3 Bxb3
24.Re1 Qf5+
25.Ka1 Qc2
26.Nd4 Qa2#
(B)Subtle Kill:
22...... Qa4
23.Kc1 Qa1+
24.Kd2 Qxh1
25.Ke3 Qc1+
26.Ke4 Bf5+
27.Ke5 Qd1+ and the WQ is lost...
Surely some other lines are in the works... |
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Oct-03-12
 | | FSR: 22...Bxb3 23.cxb3 (23.Qf6+! Rxf6 24.exf6+ Kxf6 25.cxb3 is a better try, but still lost for White.) Rxb3+ 24.Kc2 (24.Ka2 Qa4#) Qc4+ mates White in short order. |
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| Oct-03-12 | | Conrad93: There's no need to worry about how you can mate.
You just have to know that it leads to an advantage.
You can figure out the mating sequence after the combination. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 22...Bxb3