chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Johannes Georg Heftye vs Jacques Mieses
"Heftye Bag" (game of the day Apr-06-2011)
Exhibition (1902), Christiania NOR, Sep-11
Italian Game: Giuoco Pianissimo. Italian Four Knights Variation (C50)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 817 more games of J Mieses
sac: 10...Nxd5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Games that have been used in game collections will have a section at the bottom which shows collections which include it. For more information, see "What are Game Collections?" on our Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-06-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Garech: <psmith> I'm using the same engine! Apparently white can play 14.Bxh6 e.g.:

...gxh6 15.Rg1 Kh7 16.Rxg2 Bxg2 17.Qxg2 Rg8 18.Qh3:


click for larger view

and white has a sizeable advantage but the position is still tricky. Black has a knight and rook against the queen and the pawn structure is symmetrical. The g file now looks good for the black rooks an it's not completely clear how white will continue - black is pretty solid. He can aim to advance the centre pawns with c3 and d4, play Rf1 and f4 etc. In any case there is probably good play for both sides - but it's hard not to favour white with the queen. The pawn advances should create some weaknesses to attack and most exchanges will favour white for the endgame, in my opinion.

-Garech

Apr-06-11  janatoli2: Mieses was a very strong master for that time and his opponent an amateur. I think that Mieses wanted to play in a showtime style. Against a strong master he would never have sacrificed his queen like that I believe. Most likely it was just a casual game... (Or has anybody more information about that?)
Apr-06-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Black sacs the queen for a minor piece attack vs the enemy king. When the rook enters the fray,it is time for white to make terms.
Apr-06-11  janatoli2: I just took a closer look. Seems like things are much more complicated and the queen sac is really interesting. 14.Bxh6 is not good I think because of Nxf3+ 15.Kc3 (forced) Bd4+ and Bc5. 14.Qf1 looks more solid but I do not see an advantage after 14. ... Nxf3+ 15.Kc1 Nxg5 16.Qxg2 Bf3 followd by 17... Bxh1 and 18.... Bxf2. 15.Kc3 looks dangerous after Bd4+ and b5. Trying to give back the queen with advantage does not work that easily, either: 12.Kf1 Nxg2 13.Nxd4 Bxd1 approx. equal.

Seems like it is not so easy to show that white is doing better after the queen sacrifice ...

Apr-06-11  ThatsTriflin: Heftye, Heftye, sick sac!
Apr-06-11  psmith: <Garech> <janatoli2>

After 12. Bg5 Nxg2+ 13. Kd2 h6!? 14. Bxh6 Black should play Nxf3+ as <janatoli2> notes, but 15. Kc3 is not forced. Instead we can have 15. Kc1 gxh6 16. Rg1 Bxf2 17. Rxg2 Be3+ 18. Kb1 Nd2+ 19. Qxd2 Bxd2 20. h3 Bf4 with advantage to Black.

Further in <janatoli2>'s line 15. Kc3 Bd4+ 16. Kb3 Bc5 things aren't all that clear... if 17. Kc3 does Black have better than a draw (17...Bd4+) for example? Not to mention the complications after 17. Qf1.

Still this is all pretty unclear and in need of further analysis

Apr-06-11  theodor: 13.h3 - very unclear!
Apr-06-11  lzromeu: <psmith: <Garech> Fritz 5.32 suggests in your line 12. Bg5 Nxg2+ 13. Kd2 h6!? This surprising move seems to give Black chances. But I can't carry out a full analysis now.>

12.0-0 = 12Ooops!

Apr-06-11  David2009: Fascinating game. Let's join it at move 13 (White to play):


click for larger view

Feed this into Crafty End Game Trainer: can I win as White? Link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...

It's past my bed time, I'll find out tomorrow...but at the moment it's not looking good- best I can do is to bail out into an ending a Pawn down. Change the task - can I draw the game?

Open the free Internet link and try your luck. You are white, drag and drop the move you want to make.

Apr-06-11  WhiteRook48: wow, 12 0-0 was just bad
Apr-06-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: The queen sac with 10...Nxd5 11.Bxd8 Nf4 reminds me of J Augustin vs Nunn, 1977
Apr-07-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: The lines after 12.Bg5 are quite interesting, but has anyone run 12.Be7 by the silicon monsters?
Apr-07-11  janatoli2: I agree to <WhiteRook48> that 12. 0-0 loses the game. 15.a4 looks bad but there was no serious defence possible, e.g. 12.Kh1 (idea is Rg1) Bg2+ and 13... d5 similar to the game or 12.Bd5 (to prevent d5) c6. Also 13.h3 as stated by <theodor> does not change much. The extra square h2 for the white king is not helpful, e.g. 13... Bxf3 14.gxf3 d5 15.Bxd5 Rd6 16.Re1 Rg6+, 17.Kh2 Rh6 18.Rh1 Rxh3+ 19.Kg1 Nde2+ wins. Indeed 12.Bg5 and 12.Be7 need to analyzed in more detail but it is already clear that black is not better in the best lines for white. The queen sac did not refute whites weak opening (tame Giuoco Pianissimo, Bc1-e3-g5, Bf1-c4-b5-c4). Moreover, white could have played 10.Bxf6 to destroy blacks kingside and then maybe prepare to castle longside - no queen sac here. Hence maybe also Mieses did not play so convincingly despite the fantastic 10. ...Nxd5 of course (even if he move is not as strong as it looks like). Finally the pseudo sac 4. ... Nxe4! (idea 5.Nxe4 d5) is well known to be good for black - already in 1902 I believe.
May-03-11  sevenseaman: One good thing leads to another. I came here via the POTD.
May-03-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <janatoli2: Finally the pseudo sac 4 ... Nxe4! (idea 5.Nxe4 d5) is well known to be good for black - already in 1902 I believe.>

Here's the earliest example I've seen, along with a better-known game:

Chigorin vs Rosenkranz, 1900, and Tarrasch vs Lasker, 1916.

White has two further options in 5.0-0, which transposes to the Urusov Gambit after 5....Nxc3 6.dxc3, or the weaker 5.Bxf7+.

May-03-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <perfidious> It's much older, of course.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...

I wouldn't be surprised if 4...Nxe4 5.Bxf7+ was considered good for White during much of the 19th century.

May-03-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Phony Benoni: <perfidious> It's much older, of course. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...
I wouldn't be surprised if 4...Nxe4 5.Bxf7+ was considered good for White during much of the 19th century.>

Not only then, believe it or not.

In 1986, after a tourney in Cambridge, Mass, I played a three-way blitz match one evening with Miles Ardaman and the Colombian IM Jorge Gonzalez.

All my games with Gonzalez featured the Saemisch KID when I was White, and all the games where I played Black began 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nxe4 5.Bxf7+.

In two tournament encounters, I had one more with 5.Bxf7+ against the New York expert Joe Felber, and another with Boston master Bill Lukowiak in 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Bd6. What's ironic is that no class players went into this line against me, so far as I remember.

May-03-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <perfidous> Jorge Gonzalez! Hadn't thought of him for a long time. I didn't move in the same exalted circles as you, so I never met or played him. But I do remember him leading the 1986 US Open at the halfway point with a 6-0 score, ahead of a slew of GMs including Boris Spassky.

Alas, as they say, "Winning at the US Open is a crime, punishable by horrible pairings." In round 7, Spassky did this to his Saemisch KID:

Spassky vs J Gonzalez, 1986

and Jorge sank out of sight, eventually ending out of the money.

May-04-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Phony Benoni> A typically rustic treatment of the opening from Gonzalez.

See also: J A Gonzalez Rodriguez for more possible games; given the Latin matronymic to confuse things for we poor Anglos, bet there are some other games in the DB misattributed to others.

May-04-11  janatoli2: Maybe 5.Bxf7+ was considered (by whom?) as good in the first half of the 19th century. However after Steinitz, the value of a strong pawn center and the bishop pair was well known to the strong masters. Indeed, the game Tarrasch vs Lasker, 1916 is by far more remarkable because this one was played later on and it was a game of a WC match!! Tarrasch himself normally was known to go for active pieces (instead of e.g. double pawns), but I suspect we will never find out what drove him there...
May-04-11  janatoli2: Again, Bxf7+ is simply a really bad move. White wants to expose/attack the opponents king but an important piece to do so - the bishop on c4 - is gone. Black can play d5 etc. No matter who plays it nowadays, Bxf7+ is a bad move.
May-04-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <janatoli2> The Tarrasch game was played in a match, but Lasker's title was not at stake. That match was won by Lasker +5 =1.
May-04-11  janatoli2: <perfidious> ... still! Would you play bad on purpose in such a situation? But I remember that Tarrasch said that he has to punish himself for a bad tournament (I forgot which one). Maybe during this game he was already punishing himself ...
May-05-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <janatoli2> I wouldn't let Black play 4....Nxe4 in the first place.
Nov-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  wwall: The game was actually played in Kristiania (now Oslo), Norway on September 11, 1902 at the Kristiania Chess Society during an exhibition by Mieses, who was on tour in Scandinavia. The game can be found in the October 1902 issue of Tidskrift for Schack, p. 217.
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Italian Game: Giuoco Pianissimo. Italian Four Knights (C50) 0-1
from QThee Queen is Mean Vol. 5 so says Fredthebear by fredthebear
Italian Game: Giuoco Pianissimo. Italian Four Knights (C50) 0-1
from Castlin' Sinkholes Fredthebear Evaded by fredthebear
opening blunders
by had2x
18 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VII by wwall
18 moves
from Game collection: 1 by PinkLedDoor
mastermind7994's favourite games
by mastermind7994
Queen Sacrifices -3
by obrit
Rosbach's favorite games
by Rosbach
April 6: Heftye Bag
from Game of the Day 2011 by Phony Benoni


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC