chessgames.com

register now - it's free!
Ding Liren vs Lu Shanglei
"Ding Ate My Baby" (game of the day Apr-10-12)
Chinese Chess Championships (2012)  ·  Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna Variation (D39)  ·  1-0
To move:
Last move:

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Never given; click here to play! [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 2 more Ding Liren/Lu Shanglei games
sac: 14.Bxg6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: A game that has been used for Game of the Day will have a title (usually a pun) at the top of the page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with the default chess viewer, please see the Pgn4web Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-10-12  pedro123: Q v R+B with two connected passed pawns......
Apr-10-12  galdur: On second thought; 25.Rf3 seems to force mate in a few moves.
Apr-10-12  chopin4525: <moi: Please, can someone explain me what's wrong with 8...Bxc3>

I checked this variation looking at the different opening books and it seems like there's nothing wrong with your suggestion.

8... Bxc3 9. Rb1 c5 10. d5 exd5 11. Bxd5 (11. Bg5 Qd7 12. Qe2+ Qe6 ) O-O 12. Rxb7 Bd4 13. Be4 Re8 14. Bg5 f6 15. Nxd4 Bxb7 16. Bxb7 cxd4 17. Bf4 Nd7 18. Qxd4 Nb6 19. Qc3 Rc8 20. Qb3+ Rc4 21. Be3 =

8... Bxc3 9. Ba3?! Bxa1 10. Qxa1 only move Qf6 11. Qc1 Nc6 12. d5 exd5 13. Bxd5 Bd7 14. Re1+ Kd8 15. Bb2 Qg6 16. Qc4 Re8 17. Rc1 Qd6 18. Bxf7 Re7 19. Bxg7 Be6 20. Bxe6 only move Qxe6

Apr-10-12  chopin4525: ...
8... Bxc3 9. Rb1 c5 10. d5 exd5 (O-O? 11.Ng5 h6 12. Nxf7 Kxf7 13. Qf3+ Qf6 14. dxe6+ Bxe6 15. Rxb7+ Kg8 16. Qxc3 Qxc3 17. Bxe6+ Kh8 18. Bb2 Qxb2 19. Rxb2 ) 11. Bxd5 O-O 12. Rxb7 Bd4 13. Be4 Re8 14. Bg5 f6 15. Nxd4 Bxb7 16. Bxb7 cxd4 17. Bf4 Nd7 18. Qxd4 Nb6 19. Qc3 Rc8 20. Qb3+ Rc4 21. Be3 =

8... Bxc3 9. Rb1 Nd7 10. Rb3 Ba5 11. d5 Nb6 12. Bb5+ c6 13. dxc6 O-O 14. Ba3 Nd5 15. Qc2 g6

8... Bxc3 9. Rb1 a5 10. d5 exd5 11. Bxd5 O-O 12. Bxf7+ Kh8 13. Qb3 Bf5 14. Rd1 Qe7 15. Qxc3 Bxb1 16. Ba3 Qxf7 17. Bxf8 Na6 18. Rxb1 Rxf8 19. Qxa5 =

Be7 however cannot be considered a mistake.

Apr-10-12  piltdown man: Great pun, if a little sick. And not many non Aussies would get it.
Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: <chopin4525> <8... Bxc3 9. Ba3?! Bxa1 10. Qxa1 only move Qf6 11. Qc1 Nc6 12. d5 exd5 13. Bxd5 Bd7 14. Re1+ Kd8 15. Bb2 Qg6 16. Qc4 Re8 17. Rc1 Qd6 18. Bxf7 Re7 19. Bxg7 Be6 20. Bxe6 only move Qxe6 >

I am not convinced that it is viable line for black. After 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11. Qc1 Nc6 12. d5 exd5 white can continue 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Bb2 Qg6 15.Bd3! (diagram) with very powerful attack.


click for larger view

Now black cannot take the Bishop 15...Qxd3? for 16.Qg5+ and white wins. After 15...f5 white can play 16.Ne5! Nxe5 17.Bxe5 c6 18.Qf4! (threatening 19.Bc7+ Kd7 20.Qd6#) 18...Bd7 19.Ba6!! Qg4 (Of course, 19...bxa6?? loses for 20.Bc7+ Kc8 21.Ba5 with mate.) 20.Bc7+ Kc8 21.Qd6 Qa4 22.Bxb7+! Kxb7 23.Qxd7 Qc2 (covering b1 and c1) 24.g3!! (diagram)


click for larger view

Last quiet move of white prepares intrusion of white Rook via e3-b3 by elimination of threat of back rank mates and black seems to be helpless. For example 24...Rhc8 25.Bd6+ Kb6 (25...Ka6 26.Re3 ) 26.Re7 Re8 27.Qb7+ Ka5 28.Rxe8 Rxe8 29.Qxa7+ Kb5 30.Qb7+ Ka5 31.Qb4+ Ka6 32.Bc7 and black has nothing better than to give up the Rook by 32...Re1+ 33.Qxe1 with decisive material advantage of white.

Apr-10-12  Ladolcevita: <Snehalshekatkar>
Sorry,I didnt notice Bxa1...but we have some very instructive analyse here now of this move.
Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: It looked like mano-a mano between white's queen and black's king...the queen won.
Apr-10-12  ephesians: As a practical matter, if you don't play 8.... Bxc3, you're just conceding tempo and the attack to white for no compensation. Sometimes you have to finish what you started and just live with the consequences.
Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Wyatt Gwyon: Great pun.
Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Shams: Fantastic pun; author should step forward.
Apr-10-12  newzild: I don't understand why some people think this is a great pun. It's not a pun at all. In what sense does Ding eat Lu's baby? I don't see any baby in Lu's position. I wouldn't describe a king as a baby.
Apr-10-12  chopin4525: <Honza Cervenka>
Definitely you've found a line that gives white an edge but:

8... Bxc3 9. Ba3 Bxa1 10. Qxa1 Qf6 11. Qc1 Nc6 12. d5 exd5 13. Re1+ Kd8 14. Bb2 d4! (14... Qg6? 15. Bd3 f5 16. Ne5 Nxe5 17. Bxe5 c6 18. Qf4 Bd7 19. Ba6 Qg4 20. Bc7+ Kc8 21. Qd6 Qa4 22. Bxb7+ Kxb7 23. Qxd7 Qc2 24. g3) 15. Nxd4 Nxd4 16. Bxd4 Qxd4 17. Rd1 Qxd1+ 18. Qxd1+ Ke7 19. Qe1+ Be6 20. Qb4+ Kd7 21. Bxe6+ fxe6 =

Dead Draw.

Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Honza Cervenka> I am not convinced that < 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11. Qc1 Nc6 12. d5 exd5> is viable for black if 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Bb2 Qg6 15.Bd3!.>


click for larger view

Houdini 1.5a thinks that it is, but barely. After 15...f5 at d=24 (and ever since d=19) it thinks that the best that White has is a draw by repetition: 16.Ne5 Nxe5 17.Bxe5 c6 18.Bg3 Re8 19.Bh4+ Kd7 20.Qc3 Re6 21.Rxe6 Kxe6 22.Qe1+ Kf7 23.Qe7+ Kg8 24.Qd8+ Kf7 25.Qe7+ Kg8 etc.


click for larger view

At d=26 Spike 1.4 also thinks that after 15...f5 the best that White has is a draw by repetition but suggests a different (and to me not convincing since it is not forced) approach: 16.Qg5+ Qxg5 17.Nxg5 Nb4 18.Nf7+ Kd7 19.Ne5+ Ke7 20.Nc6+ Kf8 21.Nxb4 c6 22.Be2 Rg8 23.Nd3 g6 (putting all its pawns on the same color as its bishop doesn't seem right to me) 24.Bf3 Kf7 25.Ne5+ Kf8 26.Nd3


click for larger view

And with R+3P vs. N+B Black has a small material advantage, but it's hard for him to make progress due to his dark square weakness, his passive rooks, and White's great knight outpost on e5.

<BUT> sliding forward from the original position, this is how Houdini evaluates the position at d=26 after 15...f5 16.Ne5 Nxe5 17.Bxe5 c6 and your 18.Qf4!:


click for larger view

[+7.30], d=26: 18...Qe6 (if this is best that Houdini can come up with, then Black is truly lost) 19.Bc7+ Ke8 20.Rxe6+ Bxe6 21.Qd6 Bd7 22.Qg3 Be6 23.Bb8 Rf8 24.Qc7 Rxb8 25.Qxb8+ Ke7 and the rest is an exercise of White picking off Black's excess pawns: 26.Qxb7+ Bd7 27.Qb4+ Ke8 28.Qd4 h5 29.Qxg7 Bg4 30.Qh6 Bd7 31.Qxh5 Be6 32.Qg5 Kd7 33.Qe5 Re8 34.h4 Bh3 35.Qd4 Rg8 36.Qxa7+


click for larger view

All other moves are calculated to result in a forced mate, including your 18...Bc7 at [+M10], d=26.

Rybka 4.1 did somewhat better. It found 18.Qf4 fairly quickly, at d=10 and only 10 seconds of search. But it didn't appreciate its virtues; it evaluated the resulting position at only [+0.07] after 18...Bd7 19.Qb4 and by d=22 and 3:33:54 of calculation it's eval had only increased to [+1.04] and had chosen 19.Ba6 (!?) and the continuation 19...Ke7 (putting the king in the rook's line of fire doesn't seem like such a good idea) 20.Bxg7+ Kf7 21.Bxh8 bxa6 22.Qc7 Kg8 23.Be5 (why block the e-file? 23.Bd4 seems better) 23...Qf7 24.Re3 f4 25.Bxf4 h5 26.Be5 Re8 27.Qxa7 (pawn grabbing? 27.h4 creating luft, preventing ...h5, and threatening 28.Rg3+ seems a lot better) 27...Qg6 28.h4 Bg4 29.Qxa6 Kf7 30.Qb7+ Re7

So kudos to you. Neither Houdini nor Spike found your 18.Qf4! and the forced win. And after a long time calculating Rybka still didn't find your 19..Bc7(+) continuation, although it may eventually. Another example of the importance of reviewing ALL computer analyses and sliding forward when a better move becomes apparent!

The position of White's bishops reminds me of the Danish gambit. It's viable for Black but a single mistake is usually fatal. And <ephesians> is probably right, "Sometimes you have to finish what you started and just live with the consequences."

But now I'll take a look at <chopin4565>'s 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11.Qc1 Nc6 12.d5 exd5 is viable for black if 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Bb2 d4! At low ply (d=17) Rybka so far agrees with him.

Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Gregor Samsa Mendel>, <waustad>, <think> Here's a link to a larger version of the story, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria.... It is fascinating, with many twists and turns. The case has apparently been reopened (Feb-24-2012) but I wasn't able to find out if there was any final official conclusion reached.

Hey, I had to so something while I'm waiting for my engines to finish their analysis.

Apr-10-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: <AylerKupp><The case has apparently been reopened (Feb-24-2012) but I wasn't able to find out if there was any final official conclusion reached.> The coroner is yet to fix a date to announce her conclusions. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...
Apr-11-12  ounos: I wonder about 8. ...Bxc3 too. Perhaps 9. Bg5 and 10. Rc1?
Apr-11-12  chopin4525: <ounos: I wonder about 8. ...Bxc3 too. Perhaps 9. Bg5 and 10. Rc1?>

8... Bxc3 9. Bg5 Qd6 10. Rc1 Bb4 11. Ne5 O-O =

The position is equal.

Apr-11-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: Analysis of 14...d4! (part 1 of 2)

<<chopin4525> <Honza Cervenka> Definitely you've found a line that gives white an edge but: 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11.Qc1 Nc6 12.d5 exd5 is viable for black if 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Bb2 d4! 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 Qxd4 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ 18.Qxd1+ Ke7 19.Qe1+ Be6 20.Qb4+ Kd7 21.Bxe6+ fxe6 = Dead Draw.>


click for larger view

With Q+4P vs. R+R+6P I would think that the advantage, if any, is with Black if he can get his rooks coordinated and get his passed c-pawn moving. And starting from the position after <chopin4525>'s 14...d4!


click for larger view

Rybka 4.1 can't find anything worthwhile for White, evaluating the position at [0.00], d=22 and finding nothing better than a draw by repetition after 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 Qxd4 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ 18.Qxd1+ Ke7 19.Qe1+ Be6 20.Qb4+ Kd7 21.Bxe6+ fxe6 22.Qd4+ Kc6 23.Qe4+ Kb6 24.Qb4+ Kc6 25.Qe4+ Kb6 26.Qb4+ Kc6 27.Qe4+ etc. I doubt that it will break out of its rut, and all its other lines favored Black.


click for larger view

Houdini 1.5a claims a miniscule advantage for White, [+0.15], d=28 after 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 Qxd4 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ 18.Qxd1+ Ke7 19.Qf3 Be6 (anyway!) 20.Bxe6 fxe6 21.Qxb7 Rhc8 22.g3 a5 23.Qc6 a4 24.Kg2 h6 25.a3 Kf6 26.h4 Ke7


click for larger view

But I think that it is deluding itself, if computers can do such things, particularly if Black doesn't play 26...Ke7, abandons the c-pawn, and switches over to counterattack, possibly targeting White's a-pawn. But, starting from the position after 26.h4, it persisted in its evaluation, evaluating the position at [+0.18], d=29 after 26...Rab8 27.g4 Rb6 28.Qd7 Rbb8 29.Qd4+ Kf7 30.Qa7 Ra8 31.Qb7 Kg8 32.Qc6 Kh8 33.Qxe6 c5 34.Qc4 Rf8 (but abandoning the passed c-pawn doesn't seem right) 35.f3 Rad8 36.g5 hxg5 37.hxg5 Rd2+ 38.Kg3 Rd4 39.Qxc5 Rdf4 40.Qc3


click for larger view

The material is now approximately even (Q+P vs. 2R) but it's hard to see how White can make progress, even if it succeeds in playing g5-g6 and establishing a mating net.

Switching over to Rybka doesn't help the evaluation of White's position. Rybka evaluates the position after 26.h4 at [0.00], d=28, calculating that Black's best is a draw by repetition after 26...Rab8 27.h5 Ke7 28.Qxa4 c5 (this is an easier way to get a passed pawn advancing than my original thought of trying to put pressure on and capturing White's a-pawn, possibly giving up the c-pawn in the process) 29.Qc4 Ra8 30.a4 Kf8 (giving up the defense of the e-pawn and retreating doesn't seem to make much sense. 30...Rab8 planning either 31...Rb4 or, if 31.a5, 31...Ra8. In either case White must abandon its blockade of Black's c-pawn or lose the a-pawn) 31.g4 Rc6 32.f4 Rca6 (this probably gives up all winning chances) 33.Qxc5+ Kg8 34.Qe5 Rxa4 35.Qxe6+ Kh8 36.Qc6 Ra2+ 37.Kf3 R2a3+ 38.Ke4 R3a4+ 39.Kf3 Ra3+ 40.Ke4 R3a4+ 41.Kf3 Ra3+


click for larger view

So clearly Rybka and Houdini agree both with <4525>'s line and with my assessment of the position after 21...fxe6, although I think that Black's play could be improved in both cases If any improvements for White are to be found they must clearly be before 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ reduces White's available attacking material.

Apr-11-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: Analysis of 14...d4! (part 2 of 2)

In the latest CCRL 40/40 engine tournament rankings (http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/40...) Ivanhoe 9.46h was evaluated for the first time and was highly ranked (5/241 for 64-bit version, 7/241 for the 32-bit version), so I decided to let it have a go at the position after 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11.Qc1 Nc6 12.d5 exd5 is viable for black if 13.Re1+ Kd8 14.Bb2 d4! 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 Qxd4.


click for larger view

But at d=27 it couldn't come up with anything better than a slightly different draw by repetition than Rybka: 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ 18.Qxd1+ Ke7 19.Qe2+ Be6 20.Bxe6 fxe6 21.Qe5 Rad8 22.Qxg7+ Kd6 23.Qd4+ Kc6 24.Qa4+ Kb6 25.Qb4+ Kc6 26.Qa4+ etc. and all its other lines favored Black.


click for larger view

Spike 1.4, which often comes up with interesting and original lines that other engines don't, didn't this time, settling for yet another slightly different version of a draw by repetition at d=31 after 17.Rd1 Qxd1+ 18.Qxd1+ Ke7 19.Qd5 Be6 20.Qc5+ Kd7 21.Qd4+ Ke7 22.Qc5+ etc. and all its other lines favored Black. And sliding forward and starting the analysis after 26.h4 doesn't change Spike's evaluation, all moves result in evaluations of [0.00] at d=29.

So I think that I agree with <chopin4525> that the line 8...Bxc3 9.Ba3 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 Qf6 11.Qc1 Nc6 12.d5 exd5 is viable for black provided that, as is often the case, he gives up some of his extra material to blunt White's attack. And that if White overreaches in an attempt to get more than a draw, he will find himself in the inferior position. I need to amend my conclusion in my last post, "The position of White's bishops reminds me of the Danish gambit. It's viable for Black but a single mistake is usually fatal" to add "for either side." Still, I think that Black has the better practical chances regardless of the engines' evaluations.

A fun game to play over and analyze.

Dec-12-12  qqdos: <newzild> Is the pun not the lament of Lu's mother!?! This game impressed the panel of Chess Informant to win Best Game of Volume 115.
Dec-22-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: http://www.chesscafe.com/informant/...
Dec-23-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: Ding Liren vs Lu Shanglei, 2012

<qqdos: <newzild> Is the pun not the lament of Lu's mother!?! This game impressed the panel of Chess Informant to win Best Game of Volume 115.>

Yes, an unbelievably aggressive *and* sound attacking game by Ding Liren. Leko did say that the young man is a genius, or words to that effect I believe. :-)

http://www.chesscafe.com/informant/...

Dec-25-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: Game Collection: DING LIREN'S BEST GAMES
Dec-25-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: Game Collection: DING LIREN'S BEST GAMES

Ding Liren vs Lu Shanglei, 2012 Voted Best Game of Chess Informant 115, 10-pts from LarryC

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other users.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
Ding ate my baby
from Nova's favorite games 3 by Nova
Chinese Chess Championships, Xinghua 2012 Rd.5
from Selected Tournaments/Favorite Games (2012-3) by partien
yy_WILD + CRAZY TACTICAL BATTLES
by whiteshark
#114
from Chess Informant Best Game of Each Volume 65- by Sui Generis
Voted Best Game of Chess Informant 115, 10-pts from LarryC
from DING LIREN'S BEST GAMES by notyetagm
April 10: Ding Ate My Baby
from Game of the Day 2012 by Phony Benoni
14.Bxg6!!
from Young Promising GMs by Portusboy


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Little ChessPartner | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2014, Chessgames Services LLC
Web design & database development by 20/20 Technologies