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Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-09-12 | | Bureaucrat: What's the point of playing the last 50 moves? |
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| Jun-09-12 | | jmi: I mentioned this on the main Tal Memorial page so I'll just copy+paste here (apologies offhand): "He pissed off Caruana and insinuated that Caruana's ratings are inflated. He is probably trying to prove that Caruana is a weak GM, hence, the long stupid draw to try to justify his point. This was his tweet to Susan Polgar about gaining rating points earlier this year while Caruana was playing in Iceland: "@SusanPolgar: Perhaps, but there is no way that playing against a weak field in Iceland should be the same as playing in Wijk aan Zee..." If you observe the live video, you can see Nakamura shaking his head many times from move 90 onwards, he knew it himself it was a draw. In fact, the greatest brush off occurred just 3 moves before. Caruana offered a draw after move 104 with the Rook capture. Instead, Hikaru just brushed him off and played on without even acknowledging his draw offer! So Caruana just calmly moved his h-pawn up till Nakamura was forced to recapture with his knight at move 108. If you want fighting spirit, go for it but this transcends into plain silliness and being spiteful." Hope this clarifies. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | AVRO38: I have no problem with Naka playing like this against foreigners, but he shouldn't behave this way against his fellow American. If I were Caruana I would show up to next year's U.S. Championship. I think this is the first time since Pillsbury and Marshall that two players who were born U.S. citizens are on the top 10 simultaneously. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | dumbgai: <AVRO38> I think Nakamura was born in Japan, not the US. Was there nobody else during the Fischer era in the top 10? I know Reshevsky and Benko were foreign-born... |
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| Jun-09-12 | | scholes: Chess is the only sport in the world where it is considered direspectful to play on |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Edmontonchessclub: Avro38, Nakamura was not born a U.S. Citizen. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Edmontonchessclub: I'm glad to see Nakamura playing the game out right to the end. There is no way that Caruana would consider this disrespectful, he knows it's just part of the game.
Jml, you are being a troll. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | solskytz: People know Nakamura and know what to expect when playing him... just part of his game persona and absolutely nothing serious. Nakamura will never accept a draw offer! the last 3 moves were amusing, but he always keeps the fighter attitude. It's not the position, it's not the logic - it's the attitude. He believes in that, and I still didn't see any top player who takes offense. I know I wouldn't (as he isn't being mean to the opponent - just shows a tough attitude) |
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| Jun-09-12 | | solskytz: A guy needs to go a bit further than jml to qualify as a troll I suppose... he needs to repeat a clearly false and illegitimate argument a million times, or to start insulting kibitzers or players... I just don't see Jml doing anything like that |
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| Jun-09-12 | | jmi: <Edmontonchessclub:> I am not being a troll. I am simply quoting facts, with quotes Nakamura himself said. I do not know abot you but if I was in Caruana's shoes and I offered a draw, I at least expect a reply. However when my opponent just TOTALLY ignores my request (like I was not there) and continued to play on till no mating material is possible, sure I may take it that is part of the game. But you can be pretty sure that Iam not going to be "best drinking buddies" term with my opponent after the game. Even Topalov who can be a real jerk sometimes and has been known to play on, knows de-corum and when to draw/accept a draw when the position is clearly drawn. This is what I am saying.
I fully appreciate Nakamura for fighting on in some of the games but sometimes, it's best to save your ammunition for another day esp in a tournament as long as this. Even GM Ian Rogers who was commenting on the game mentioned something to the effect of "you can go for a break for 15 minutes, and there will still be no change in the outcome." |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Bureaucrat: He had the right to play it out, of course, but what's the point? There was absolutely zero chance of winning. Nil. They just moved pieces around aimlessly for 50 moves. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | dumbgai: <scholes: Chess is the only sport in the world where it is considered direspectful to play on> Not true. There are other sports in which "conceding" (i.e. resigning) when clearly lost is expected. These include snooker, curling, and certain match-play formats in golf (and probably some others I can't name right now). |
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Jun-09-12
 | | HeMateMe: Now THIS was a draw. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | asiduodiego: I don't get the point of this: more than "fighting spirit" this looks childish. It's looks like trying to just bore your opponent, playing a position without chances. IMHO, having "Fighting spirit" is trying risky stuff, searching complications, not playing dead drawn positions, with no risk whatsoever, for boring 50 additional moves. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | lost in space: At least Naka hasn't tried to mate his opponent after move 107. He seems to learn. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | BadKnight: Where did Naka miss win? |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Harvestman: Generally agree with your points jml, except that there is no obligation for an opponent to acknowledge a draw offer, or respond to it, unless they choose to. It doesn't automatically mean that your opponent is slighting you, just that they are concentrating on the game. Of course, if the position is an obvious dead draw, like this one, there may be more to it than that... |
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| Jun-09-12 | | AVRO38: <dumbgai><<AVRO38> I think Nakamura was born in Japan, not the US.> Who said he was born in the U.S.?
<Edmontonchessclub><Avro38, Nakamura was not born a U.S. Citizen.> Yes he was. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Bozantium: His Wikipedia page says that he was born in Japan. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | dx9293: <Bozantium> Nakamura was born in Japan, but his mother is American, so he WAS born a U.S. citizen, far as I can tell. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | HowDoesTheHorsieMove: <Of course, if the position is an obvious dead draw, like this one, there may be more to it than that...> In this case the draw offer was made only seconds before it was a draw by rule. I think it was reasonable to ignore the offer. |
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| Jun-09-12 | | Jim Bartle: If one of the parents is a US citizens and the child is born outside the US, it's not automatic that the child is a US citizen. The parent who is a citizen has to prove he or she lived four or five (can't remember) consecutive years in the US before the age of 21. School or college transcripts are the usual proof which is provided. |
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| Jun-10-12 | | dumbgai: <AVRO38> Okay, clearly my understanding of citizenship rules is incomplete. You could have just explained to me without getting rhetorical. |
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| Jun-10-12 | | solskytz: <Avro 38>?
The guy is old news. I didn't see his post of course, but as far as I know him he was probably being more 'rhetrollical'. I tend to put on ignore people who tend to act offensive. Nothing personal - just plain hygiene. |
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Jun-10-12
 | | keypusher: <Jim Bartle: If one of the parents is a US citizens and the child is born outside the US, it's not automatic that the child is a US citizen. The parent who is a citizen has to prove he or she lived four or five (can't remember) consecutive years in the US before the age of 21. School or college transcripts are the usual proof which is provided.> Back when I was a vice-consul 20+ years ago (shudder) it was 5 years, two of which had to come after the age of 14 (thinking being someone who spent his teen years in the U.S. had stronger ties than if he had spent his first five years here and then left, never to return). |
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