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| Nov-14-07 | | Thorsson: <kb2ct: Rbc1 is clearly the way to meet Bf6 next and it explains why the chess engines prefer the more forcing Re8. It also seems to suggest that Rbc1 is the best move if he forces the bishps off with Re8 Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit:
17...Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Rf7 20.b3 Kg8 21.Qb2 Be7 22.e3 Rc8 23.Qe2 etc. I trust everyone realizes that the standards have risen again and that we are playing to keep chances alive> I trust that everyone realises that it is not necessary to repeat the first 33-ply of the game in every post. I also trust that everyone realises that 19...Ra7 is a viable Black alternative to Rf7. And that 21.Qb2 allowing Be7 might not be very bright of Rybka. Rybka might be able to trounce every OTB GM as Hugin rightly points out, but unassisted Rybka can still make schoolboy errors at times... |
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| Nov-14-07 | | yskid: Hi Kwid,
Something's wrong with reading PGN. I had no chance to "sanitize it", so:17. Be5 Bf6 18. Rbc1 Ne6 19. Na4 Ra7 20. Bxf6+ Qxf6 21. Nb6 Be8 22. b4 a4 23. b5 Rb7 24. Nxa4 Rxb5 25. e3 Ra5 26. Qb4 Rb5 27. Qa3 Ra5 28. Qb4 Rb5 29. Qa3 0.00/16 I put that as a mainline, but Sh9 16 different alternatives are listed, so only pasting "whole thing" then, saving it as a game and replaying it would be needed for proper reading.
yskid |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Boomie: Although I don't like doing this on the main page, since everybody else works here and there's no activity in the Bf6 forum capafan chessforum, what the heck? Compare RV's line: 17...Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Ra7 20.b3 Kg8 21.Qb2 N4g5 22.Nxg5 Bxg5 23.e3 Be7 24.h4 Bb4 0.35/16
click for larger view
With this line which uses the new move 22. Ne1:
17...Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Ra7 20.b3 Kg8 21.Qb2 N4g5 <22.Ne1> Bxe5 23.Qxe5 Qe7 24.Qe3 Be8 25.Nd3 0.43/17
click for larger view
To my eye, the 22.Ne1 position is superior.
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| Nov-15-07 | | kb2ct: Computer lines have no predictive value. They do however help understand what is going on, but are a second opinion at best.
In this game our tiny advantage can disappear very quickly if we rely on them alone. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | yskid: Hi Boomie,
After 17...Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Ra7 20.b3 Black's f4 may be considered.
21.gxf4?! Bxe5 21.fxe5 Nf4;
so White remains with 21.g4 and the position seems somewhat "stonewalled".
yskid |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Boomie: < yskid: Hi Boomie,
After 17...Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Ra7 20.b3 Black's f4 may be considered.>Howdy, yskid. The RV line is about 22 ply deep at that point. So I would be surprised if f4 was good but stranger things have happened. I'm sure GMT would love to get in f4 so it's something we have to check at every move. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | melianis: I wouldn't be surprised if GM Timmerman used one of his extensions now. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: Hello everyone: I see that everybody is with that Rybka line.I would like someone of you explains to me what is the purpose of 17. ...Bf6 18. Rbc1 Ne6(this move 18. ...Ne6).Have you analized the meaning of each move?Have you thought that the human brain is better than any computer analysis when you have the time to do so?Please answer me. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: The analysis of 20 or 30 plys is to me like an ice cream right in front of the door in summer time. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: kb2c2 am completely agree with you about that computers help understand positions,but not rely on them as the only way to win a game or this game.I said that before,too. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: 17. ...Bf6 18. Bd4 ...? That move makes that Rybka goes crazy.I have what it takes to win this game without computers. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: GMJT is one of the chess players who knows what to do in positions where he is in trouble.This GM is going to try at all cost to come up with a new idea.He won't try to defend too much the pawn on a4.What he wants to do if he plays 17. ...Bf6,is the advancing of the pawns on the King side with h6 first and g5 after,when he realized that most of this team are using the analysis of Rybka only.He uses Rybka,but he uses his brain as well.He will attack as soon he had the opportunity to do so.That's why he is not going to put too much attention to a weak pawn,and he will take everything in consideration.
click for larger view/
If he plays 17. ...Bf6 18. Bd4 ...? What do you think with the help of Rybka about this move? |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Hugin: Yes Thorsson Rybka does mistakes especially stratetical ones, even in the endgames . |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Hugin: "Openings teach you openings. Endgames teach you chess!" -- Stephan Gerzadowicz, US Postal Chess Master
"In order to improve your game, you must study the endgame before everything else, for whereas the the endings can be studied and mastered by themselves, the middle game and the opening must be studied in relation to the endgame." -- Jose Raul Capablanca, World Champion 1921-1927 |
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: The most strong move that GMJT can play,after analizing more and more,is 17. ...Bf6 |
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| Nov-15-07 | | kb2ct: Whether it is a mistake or not, Rybka takes refuge in complications not simplicity after Bf6. It runs from simplicity.
It explains nothing except why it chooses Re8
:0)
1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 d6 7. Nc3 c6 8. Qb3
Kh8 9. Rd1 Na6 10. Qa3 Nc7 11. d5 Bd7 12. Rb1 a5 13. dxc6 bxc6 14. c5 Ne4 15.
cxd6 exd6 16. Bf4 d5 17. Be5 Bf6 18. Rbc1
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit :
18...Ne6 19.Na4 Rf7 20.b3 Kg8 21.Qb2 Be7 22.e3 Rc8 23.Qe2 Bf6 24.Bb2 N6g5 25.Nxg5 ² (0.39) Depth: 25 16:40:44 2692608kN
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| Nov-15-07 | | MindCtrol9: If you want a draw,with this it is: 17. ...Bf6 18.Qb3 Ne6 19. Qa3 Nc7(this is the line for a draw) |
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Nov-15-07
 | | rinus: <kb2ct> Is this of any help? After <17.Be5 Bf6>
18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Ra7 20.e3 Kg8 21.b3 N6g5 22.Bxf6 Nxf3+ 23.Bxf3 Qxf6 24.Nc5 Qe7 25.Rd4 Rfa8 26.Be2 Qd6 27.Ra4 Qc7 28.Kg2 Rd8 29.Rd4 Re8 30.Kg1 Nxc5 31.Qxc5 Fruit 2.3.1 : +0.51. Depth: 25. ♘odes: 26408.7 M |
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| Nov-15-07 | | chesscard: I made a very brief (10 minute) analysis (no moves,just plans)also. I don't want to make any move suggestions. My conclusions:
1)White is minimally better here, but not enough to win. 2)Queen's should be exchanged. Then you are playing for 2 results (30% win, 70% draw) If queens are kept on the board, black may play f4, fxg3, and then g5,h5,and h4. These are very messy. Game is won for white on the queen side, but black's attack would be very dangerous 3)Best endings to play for a win with white:
a) R+KN (for white)/with R+B ending
b) R+B vs R+B
c) B vs B endings
But in these endings, black should not be able to achive a dark square control (even at the expense of sacrificing a pawn) when he has a c6,d5,e4 pawn formation with d7 bishop).If black can achive c5,d4,e4 he has good chances. 4)Technical: You are relying on Rybka too much. On every single move, the best engine changes. Rybka also has major weaknesses (ie :not good for rook endings).In my opinion, it is not clear if Rybka is the best program in these positions. 5)Are you guys also analyzing with Zappa Mexico? this program occasionally finds interesting moves. 6)My performance rating (with white) in the last (17th) CC olympics: 3230! Good luck in the game!
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Nov-15-07
 | | Stonehenge: <6)My performance rating (with white) in the last (17th) CC olympics: 3230!> I guess CC stands for chesscard? |
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| Nov-15-07 | | classF: <chesscard> nice work in the olympiad, 8 wins, 2 draws, no loss, very impressive http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventC... |
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Nov-15-07
| | rinus: Continuing ...
After <17.Be5 Bf6 18.Rbc1 Ne6 19.Na4 Rf7>
click for larger view
20.b3 Kg8 21.e3 Be7 22.Qb2 N6g5 23.Nxg5 Bxg5 24.Nc5 Nxc5 25.Rxc5 Be7 26.Rcc1 Bf6 27.Bxf6 Rxf6 28.Rd4 Re6 29.Qa3 Kh8 30.Bf3 Rb8 31.Qb2 Qc7 Fruit 2.3.1 : +0.54. Depth: 21. ♘odes: 653.6 M |
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Nov-15-07
 | | kutztown46: Assuming we get a move today, I will post the new forum assignments about 30 minutes after the move is posted. I will be away from my office for a little while. I have forum plans ready for 17...Re8, 17...Bf6, 17...Nf6 and 17...Ng5. |
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Nov-15-07
| | rinus: ChessBookie:
17...Bf6 -..-- 2,987
17...Re8 ---- 5,246 |
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| Nov-15-07 | | RandomVisitor: Here we go, I'm holding my breath (sound of large gulp of air). |
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