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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 64 OF 598 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-25-13
 | | PawnSac: <This is the only eco=A01 game in Ginger's database where he played white, but its a completely different line. Informative tho.> [Event "ICC"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2013.09.25"]
[White "Ginger"]
[Black "firetiger"]
[Result "*"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 g6 3. e4 Bg7 4. f4 d6 5. Qf3 g4 6. Qd3 O-O 7. Nc3 c5 8. h3 Bd7 9. Nf3 Nc6 10. O-O-O b5 11. e5 Ne8 12. Qe3 b4 13. Ne4 a5 14. Bb5 Qb6 15. Ba4 Ra7 16. exd6 Bxb2+ 17. Kxb2 exd6 18. g4 Nd4 19. Bxd7 Rxd7 20. f5 Nxf3 21. Qxf3 d5 22. Ng3 a4 23. g5 Nc7 24. Rhe1 Nb5 25. Qf4 axb3
26. axb3 Ra7 27. Ra1 Rfa8 28. Qe5 c4 29. Qe8+ Rxe8 30. Rxe8+ Kg7
31. f6+ Qxf6+ 32. gxf6+ Kxf6 33. Rxa7 Nxa7 34. bxc4 dxc4 35. Rb8 c3+
36. dxc3 bxc3+ 37. Kxc3 Kg7 38. Rb6 Nc8 39. Rb7 Nd6 40. Rd7 Nc8
41. Ne4 h5 42. Nd6 Nb6 43. Rxf7+ Kh6 44. Rb7 Nd5+ 45. Kd4 Nf4
46. Nf7+ Kg7 47. Ng5+ Kf6 48. Ne4+ Kf5 49. Rf7+ Ke6 50. Rxf4 g5
51. Rf6+ Ke7 52. Ke5 Kd7 53. Kd5 h4 54. Rf7+ Ke8 55. Nd6+ Kd8
56. Ke6 g4 57. Rd7# |
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| Sep-25-13 | | cormier: 3...d5 4.Bb5 Bd6 5.f4 f6 6. Qh5+ g6 7. Qh4 exf4 8. Nf3 fxe3 9. O-O |
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| Sep-25-13 | | DcGentle: <ajile: <I'm of the opinion we could outplay him positionally but maybe that's a minority position.>> Well, you have my support there. It's pretty clear that <3... Nf6> will be much more positional than <3... d5>. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | Tiggler: Nice to see 235 votes, I guess. Close votes always seem to attract a high turnout. I wonder if the winner will get to 100. I don't remember a WT vote winning with less than 100, but others no doubt will correct me. |
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Sep-25-13
| | PawnSac: <DcGentle: <PawnSac>: Black can do better in both Caruana games. Blitz is something else than correspondence, fortunately.> Well, somewhat. Generally a little more accurate, but with superGM's like Naka and Caruana the strategical ideas are still sound. they play at blitz what they have generally worked out in their preparation, so it is not to be discounted by much. But i'm gonna keep digging at ICC. Their database is MUCH larger than here, and there may be some real gems to help our cause. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | DcGentle: <PawnSac>: Yes, for sure, at Blitz you'll play what you have learned. Nevertheless in the middle game things tend to get superficial in Blitz. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | WinKing: <Tiggler: I wonder if the winner will get to 100. I don't remember a WT vote winning with less than 100, but others no doubt will correct me.> The last time it happened <Tiggler> was in our first game with GM Akobian on move 26. 26...Rc4 97 votes (51.9%) |
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Sep-25-13
| | PawnSac: < Tiggler: Nice to see 235 votes, I guess. Close votes always seem to attract a high turnout. I wonder if the winner will get to 100. I don't remember a WT vote winning with less than 100, but others no doubt will correct me.> I think it will break 100 easily..
but if all the other lines besides d5 and Nf6 change their vote and pick either of the two top ones it could go either way and easily over 100 for both. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | Tiggler: <WinKing> Our archivist? Thank you. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | WinKing: <Tiggler: <WinKing> Our archivist? Thank you.> Your welcome. |
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Sep-25-13
 | | Domdaniel: <Ajile> Yeah, I agree. I haven't fired up an engine on this game yet -- I think it's quite pointless at this stage. So I'm going by my own experience of playing the Nimzo-Larsen, as Black and White, backed up to some extent by books I've read. But engines at this stage in the game are misleading at best: we need to think strategically.
I also agree with <tiggler> ... sacrificing a pawn (for dubious compensation, IMO) at this point is not a good idea. |
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Sep-25-13
 | | chrisowen: <cro777> Elephant b5 om bold again a6 too soon raiding black in ground it ok arrive in b1 lieu knight accolade cough up winch a wire b5 telegraph a5 c4 mind beneath in gestated bind a knighth3 a check forsooth a chin f4 looks have wears he going a plain f6 all staff knight bishop first b5 down dips a d4 c5, bishop pace a golden f6 lease h3 knight you b2 in pocket a drill yeah d5 face the ol bad music cain e5 bin ramboozled in just b5 d6 is a3 flicked across and we follow Anish. |
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Sep-25-13
| | Domdaniel: Just a thought: we could actually *lose* this. While it hasn't got acrimonious, I think there is more divergence of opinion about how to proceed than I've seen before. Some want to play very aggressively, maybe because they have a poor opinion of White's opening -- and others are much more cautious. We haven't really reached anything like consensus, and Simon W. is well able to exploit that kind of vacillation in his opponents. So watch out, eh? Even with all those super-engines... |
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| Sep-25-13 | | jamennib: In the opening of a GM vs World game, the GM is not playing a team, but statistics. Once we have left the book, our resources give us equality or better, but until then, the GM can pretty well take control of the game. We are after all a widely divergent population who can be expected to have our preferences. Thus in each of our first two moves, we made the most often played move. If we take a look at our present position and compare our votes with the database on this site (see Opening Explorer) we pretty well mirror those results. Actually, the results are skewed because many who prefer d6 are changing their vote to maybe d5. But GMSW can be quite confident that the team will play Nf6. There is nothing wrong with that move. After all it has been successfully played many times. It's just that as long as statistics determine the team's moves, we have not really started playing yet. We may be arguing and disagreeing, but we're not out of book yet. Some have pointed out to me that, in fact, we do not always play the most popular move. Granted, but it is rare. Let's try to have fun and work together until the game really starts for us. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | stunningmove: <zsoydd> and <DcG> as the most outspoken analyst of each camp. please post the line (up to move 16 perhaps) with end diagram of the variation you see the game taking. The voters would like to see this I think. Especially with such a close vote. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | WinKing: < Domdaniel: Just a thought: we could actually *lose* this. > Doh! Sacrilege. I knew someone might bring that up but was hoping they would hold the thought. I can relate to what you say(divergence of opinion) though <Domdaniel>. If we can survive the opening intact I think we should be ok. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | DcGentle: <stunningmove>: This is not easy, in the <3... Nf6> line White has 3 good choices at move 4 already, and it's not clear which one he will prefer. I have analyzed the most often played choice <4. Nb5> with success more closely, but after <4. Nf3> or <4. c4> I can only hint at the type of position we should aim for: KID like positions. In the correspondence games posted by <zsoydd> Black never opted for these kind of positions, but we'll have excellent prospects there, a sample can be found here --> Analysis Forum chessforum |
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| Sep-25-13 | | DPLeo:
Stockfish made it out to <d=39> in the 3.e3 a6 line. DPLeo chessforum
<After: 1.b3 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 a6>
click for larger view
Stockfish_4_x64_modern_sse42:
1) [d=39] < 0.00> 4.Nf3 e4 5.Ne5 Nxe5 6.Bxe5 d6 7.Bd4 Nf6 8.c4 Be7 9.Nc3 0-0 10.Be2 Re8 11.0-0 c5 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 2) [d=39] < 0.00> 4.c4 d5 5.cxd5 Qxd5 6.Nf3 Qd6 7.Bc4 Be7 8.0-0 Nf6 9.d4 exd4 10.Nxd4 0-0 11.Nxc6 Qxc6 12.Nd2 Bg4 3) [d=39] <-0.08> 4.Ne2 d5 5.d4 Bd6 6.g3 Nf6 7.Bg2 Qe7 8.0-0 Bg4 9.c4 dxc4 10.h3 Bxe2 11.Bxc6+ bxc6 12.Qxe2 cxb3 Nf6, a6, and d5 all look like good moves at this point. I don't think we would get a bad game with any of them. Enjoy!
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| Sep-25-13 | | Kikoman: <3...d5> voted! :D |
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| Sep-25-13 | | chesstoplay: Posted votes... a compilation:
3. … Nf6
imag
kwid
hms123
kutztown46
tiggler
stunningmove
OhioChessFan
DcGentle
morfishine
benjinathan
blue wave
DanLanglois
optimal play
Peterfritz
Marmot PFL
PawnSac
zendokun
joupajou
simpliCty
hedgehog
Wyatt Gwyon
YetAnotherAmateur
keypusher
chesstoplay
3. … d5
zsoydd
Tabanus
lost in space
Plang
BobbieM
pajaste
Penguincw
WannaBe
builttospill
weisyschwarz
GauraNitai
talisman
auh2o
milt
condition
MuzioFan
Kikoman
3. ... d6
ajile
Ceri
parmetd
thegoodanarchist
MikeB20
3. ... a6
WinKing
Ron
Domdaniel
Errors or omissions are my fault. Please post corrections. 4:00 PM 9/25/2013 CST USA 17:00 Server Time |
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| Sep-25-13 | | Balmo: It seems premature to be discussing possible winning lines...we're only 3 moves in. Whichever move we choose will only help define the struggle to come. For my part I voted Nf6 for flexibility and without committing to d5 so early. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | cro777: <chrisowen> White has an option for a formation with c4, but I believe that Bb5 is more probable. He will profit from our choice of standard structures. Interestingly, the position after 3...Nf6 4. Bb5 Bd6 (with good chances to be seen in our game) first occurred in Breslau 1859 (!) in the game Suhle - Anderssen. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | cormier: B Suhle vs Anderssen, 1859 |
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| Sep-25-13 | | DcGentle: <WinKing>: Apropos losing: We must not invite him to some kind of positional sacrifice, that would be likely missed by at least some engines, and if the strong analysts of the team would miss this as well.... he describes himself as aggressive player, so which move would he play here?
click for larger viewWhite to move.
Hint: Houdini (free version) might miss it, Rybka 4 will see it. |
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| Sep-25-13 | | cormier: 1.b2 e5 2.Bb2 Nc6 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bd6 if 5,d4 exd4 and if 6.Bxc6 Bb4+ 7.c3 dxc3 8.Bxc3 Bxc3+ 9 Nxc3 10.dxc6 Qxd8 11.Kxd8 |
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