chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
 
The Chessgames.com Challenge
Dancing Rook
THE WORLD WINS
The World vs Arkadij Naiditsch
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

  
   Chessgames Challenge
Can a group of chess amateurs team up to beat a grandmaster?  Find out in the Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members on this page.

[Help Page]


[flip board] GAME OVER: 1-0 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 O-O 6.O-O d6 7.Nbd2 Ne7 8.d4 exd4 9.cxd4 Bb6 10.Re1 Bg4 11.h3 Bh5 12.a3 Bg6 13.Ba4 d5 14.e5 Ne4 15.Nxe4 dxe4 16.Nh4 Qxd4 17.Qxd4 Bxd4 18.Bg5 Nc6 19.Nxg6 fxg6 20.Rxe4 Bxf2+ 21.Kh2 Rf5 22.Bd2 Rd8 23.Bb4 Nxb4 24.axb4 c6 25.e6 Rb8 26.Rd1 Kf8 27.g4 Rf6 28.g5 Rf5 29.Rd7 b5 30.Bd1 Bb6 31.Bg4 Rf2+ 32.Kg3 Rf1 33.h4 Rg1+ 34.Kh2 Rf1 35.h5 Ke8 36.Rxg7 1-0
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 03:18:48
[REGISTER]   [HELP]   [CONDITIONS]   [REVIEW GAME]   [ROSTERS]   [DOWNLOAD PGN]   [WEBMASTERS]

NOTE: You are currently not signed in. If you have a Chessgames account, you must first sign-in with your username & password to access the Chessgames Challenge area. If you do not have an account, please see our registration page.

Check out the Sticky frequently; it's used for sharing important
links and other information with your teammates. [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 701 OF 707 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <To come to an end. I would like to propose to chessgames.com to give this idea a try. Let's have a challenge in Lasker Chess, and despite being short of time I would be ready for such a challenge at any time you like. Let's make chess again a bit more complex by introducing a third option apart from playing for a win or a draw - the option of a stalemate win. Cheers, Arno>

I am ready right now to take up GMAN on his kind offer. Let's go!

Jan-19-15  lost in space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4o...
Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: <<AylerKupp>: <mistermac> <Sorry for taking so long to reply to you very valid question. An answer is not easy to give, simply because your question is valid.> You seem to indicate that you favor an explanation of the various moves in a line.>

Yes. I like to feel that when I make a move there is a reason to do so. The better the reason, the better the move,

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <mistermac: Yes. I like to feel that when I make a move there is a reason to do so. The better the reason, the better the move>

As for the low information voters, I made clear I meant the people who showed up for the first one or two moves, and then left. I don't have a problem with the voters who voted 1. e4 this game as a challenge.

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <mistermac: Yes. I like to feel that when I make a move there is a reason to do so. The better the reason, the better the move>

As far as your above statement, take a look at this:

http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess/p...

Yes, mate in 262. Watching the pieces swirl around the board is an amazing experience. During those 262 moves, would you think of demanding to know why, for example, move #174 is best? It just <is>. It would be pointless to ask why or try to understand it. As Krabbe' says, < The Stiller moves are awesome, almost scary, because you know they are the truth, God's Algorithm - it's like being revealed the Meaning of Life, but you don't understand a word.> On a different page on the site- http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/... Krabbe' says:

< Playing over these moves is an eerie experience. They are not human; a grandmaster does not understand them any better than someone who has learned chess yesterday. The knights jump, the kings orbit, the sun goes down, and every move is the truth. It's like being revealed the Meaning of Life, but it's in Estonian. On Thompson's Website, where this and other endgame databases can be found, he has named the link to them: 'Play Chess with God.'>

In the world of centaur chess, sometimes a best move just <is> and we are hard pressed to know, understand, or express why. If you want a big picture why the 262 moves are each best, I think it safe to say that each individual move has some impact far down the road, with an enormous series of if/then considerations, far more than the human mind can grasp. Maybe move 174 is just right for that moment, for it stops the King from moving to g7 58 plies later and escaping mate for one more move. On a much smaller scale, a normal game of chess is bound to have such moments, where a computer is simply seeing a truth that can't be expressed in the normal strategic terms people are used to.

Jan-20-15  kwid: < OhioChessFan:> <mistermac:>

Bravo! It couldn't have been said any better. I like to add or remind some members that this forum should not be used as an engine testing place. The SF6 is available for free and should be used to compare its findings with lower rated engines output before posting it,

We should encourage more human view points expressed here as to there perceived position assessments and or projection or goals to aim for or steer clear from it.

Such contributions regardless of the members elo ratings could help us in our search for the ever more elusive novelty required to keep our winning streak alive.

As to engine lines I think we must have one very deep ply reaching beyond the horizon of any particular engine in use with back sliding method and less emphasizing on reams of secondary findings.

Oh yes; we could definitely use a < main line projection > condensed from our findings at the AT forum . This could really guide us into ever deeper searches for the true value we all hope to see way beyond the horizon reachable from any top rated engines running on current best rated hard ware.

And what ever reason we all have to participate at this site, is it socializing , making new friends or simply to learn from others , the overall objective should be to help the team to share its success in overcoming the challenge from our opponent.

Jan-20-15  Xenon Oxide: Whatever happened to the <subforum> system for candidate moves? I thought that was a great way of organizing the huge volume of analysis. If I recall, it was the analysis forum system that really helped us out in the first Arno Nickel challenge ever while we were floundering without organization. Why abandon it?
Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: <OCF>, <kwid>, <XO>, you are my kind of men.

"Long live the blunder!"

My life is a quest for the ultimate blunder, the most beautiful suimate ever!

Meanwhile, I bow before God's Inscrutable Algorithm and His Vast Eternal Plan.

My new avater is explicated on my Forum.

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: I forgot to say that I am going to master Estonian when I find a free moment.
Jan-20-15  cro777: <mistermac>'s Dulcinea del Toboso

Jennifer Shahade is an American Woman's Chess Grandmaster and writer. She’s also the PokerStars Mind Sport Ambassador.

“The biggest similarity that chess players can often translate to poker is the approach of always trying to play the best move – not just get lucky and win” (Shahade>

http://pokerfuse.com/site_media/med...

(Jen has a eye on the future of both chess and poker.)

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: Thanks, <cro777>!

Her pic and its pose are the same as my eldest daughter, who has ably replaced my recently departed wife as my comfort and joy.

Let us all that the Divine Dealer gives us at least a Full on 7's like your own username.

Jen is better that a "poke in the eye with a sharp stick" (a saying common in Australia).

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: Back to the matter in hand, <OCF>!

Chess and life a just a tangle of nested Ifs, Butts, Knots, ORs (inclusive and exclusive), NORs and short horizons.

No explanations needed.

Just wheel in the next GM.

Put another Nickel in!

There you go, <OCF>! Take the muzzle off your Muse!

Jan-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Xenon: Whatever happened to the <subforum> system for candidate moves? >

People quit using it. The Analysis Tree has replaced it. At first, the AT was a supplement to the forums. Then it became a replacement for them. The people who tried to organize them gave it up as a losing battle.

<I thought that was a great way of organizing the huge volume of analysis.>

I 100% agree.

< If I recall, it was the analysis forum system that really helped us out in the first Arno Nickel challenge ever while we were floundering without organization. Why abandon it?>

It wasn't worth the time/effort to organize. I think people will belatedly realize the value when we lose a game.

Jan-20-15  kwid: <mistermac:Chess and life a just a tangle of nested Ifs, Butts, Knots, ORs (inclusive and exclusive), NORs and short horizons>

Your view about chess is really intriguing.

It is certainly quite different from my perspective. With our game format I think more about preparing for ones opponent and goal setting to reach exploitable positions. Therefore it leads me to pertinent game data reviewing as to any historical events useful in my pre game planning.

Then assure myself about the actual evaluations or accuracy of my selected line od lines with verification from deep ply engine analysis.

Then I review or evaluate suggested moves or lines from our members to come up with the highest rated theoretical positions from the latest GM fashion lines.

This gives me a reasonable assurance that I am on track for aiming at my goals which are hopefully beyond the perception of our opponent.

But the most difficult task is to project these ideas to the team for adoption or look for improvements or a refutation.

Oh yes; I do not take luck into consideration when preparing for a game plan. In contrary I expect to see the best moves played from our opponent.

Jan-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: Thanks, <kwid>! nice of you to talk to me.

I am simply a patzer, and at best an ordinary Club Player. I realise to name a few who are way better players than me, and in a different league.

You, <RV>, <Pedro>, <morphish>, <You Rang>, <OCF>, <AK>, <Tiggler>, <cro777>, our two German friends who are superb, but their names elude me without having to look, (and they are very, very good), <cormier>, <Dc>, and <DanL>. There are a few others that do not come immediately to mind, and <Rookfile> and <JB> come to mind. If you are good, and not named, my apologies.

I am a genuine patzer, but I love the game, and I love the drama of the team. My "strange" perspective on the game is inexpertise, and my own temperament. I am a perfectionist, and have trouble working out the priorities. I should be better at Chess, and why I am not I cannot figure. I am probably just not organised in my mind enough.

All the best, <kwid>, now and in future.

Jan-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: http://chessjournalism.org/2012entr..., congrats!

Or see http://chessjournalism.org/2012entr... and click on Certificate, the first link may not work. Sandler = <hms123>!

Jan-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: One notable omission from my list, (and how could I forget?) was <DaringSpec>.
Jan-21-15  hms123: <Tabanus>. Thanks. This was a team effort.

chessgames.com chessforum

Jan-21-15  kwid: <Premium Chessgames Member mistermac: Thanks, <kwid>! nice of you to talk to me.

All the best, <kwid>, now and in future.>

Thank you.

It's very kind of you to bestow credit for the hard working members you specifically named.

But I would like to say a few words about the other unnamed contributors who may not have the opportunity to spent a lot of time for this game but do follow our discussions and discern their approval with their vote in support for our success.

If we ever do get an other opportunity to face a high rated challenger with correspondence type of experience a possible win for us could only be forged out if we can pool our resources based on many minds to allow us reaching a depth which has not been seen before.

To stay ahead of such an opponent it would require for us to discuss potential exploitable middle game positions before deciding on our first move choice already.

Such a plan may well require tasks assignments to cover the possible transition lines aiming for a goal which must be beyond the current reach of top engines such as RV's evaluations.

Jan-21-15  MuzioFan: <Xenon>, <OCF>: Although I have only been around for two World Team games, so I never was around when the forum system was still fully in use, I think the problem with the forum system is the presentation to the rest of the team. An example of this was our potential response to <25.Ka2> in the game against GMSKW, where we had a forum for each of <25..bxc4>, <25..b4> and <25..Rab8>. I believe that <25..b4> was ultimately considered inferior, and after both <25..Rab8> and <25..bxc4> good continuations (probably winning) were found. The problem was not the effort of the Team or collection of information, it was that as soon as people picked a move to investigate and found a decent continuation they (me included, I guess) were not willing to consider the other moves (why risk the win, after all?), so here the forum system split the team in several factions making discussion more difficult, and we did not have a consensus when GMSKW played <25.c5> making the point moot. The tree has an advantage over the forum system when it comes to presentation as it is really easy to walk through the lines considered best by the analysts and can instantly be updated, rather than having to wade through separate forums to find continuations and refutations.

But I agree that the forum system sounds very useful, and the World Team should try harder to reintroduce it.

Jan-22-15  Ceri: <chesstoplay: From The Caissars Forum... < < 12. BEST (WORST) PUN OF THE YEAR >

And the winner is ... <Suffering from c6-ness> >

Carolyn Wells, an author and poet who died in 1942, said,

"A blunder at the right moment

is better than cleverness at the wrong time."

From Phillip Alder's Bridge column today.>

Phillip Alder was one of my early Bridge partners: 1967 - 1972.

He was never the most charitable of partners. One one occasion he reported a session as "Containing no interesting hands". One might have thought that a Devil's Coup, yielding the opponents zero trump tricks with a holding of Q,7,3 opposite J,9 would have qualified as interesting. (We were playing in the 1971 New York Spring Nationals) However, he was not declarer, I was.

Admittedly, it was for an overtrick in a contract of 3 Spades.

Cheers,

Ceri

Jan-22-15  yskid: <Jan-22-15 cormier: Carlsen vs Radjabov, 2015>Does anyone understand why are Black's (Annand did the same as Radjabov) avoiding 5...Nd4 after White moves 0-0? What do they expect? We moved 5.c3 exactly to prevent "drawish" Nd4.
Jan-22-15  AgentRgent: <Ceri: One might have thought that a Devil's Coup, yielding the opponents zero trump tricks with a holding of Q,7,3 opposite J,9 would have qualified as interesting...Admittedly, it was for an overtrick in a contract of 3 Spades.>??? Did someone say Estonian?
Jan-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Ummmmmmmmm, hello? Nobody else wants to take <GMAN> up on his offer?
Jan-22-15  isemeria: Yes, let's play a game of Lasker chess!

See also GMAN's new post of the topic at his player page: Arno Nickel

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 707)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 701 OF 707 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2025, Chessgames Services LLC