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Aug-03-08 | | you vs yourself: <Since you asked why, I got my impressions from re-playing many of their games. They're practically all here in chessgames by the way.> What do you look for in a game to guage talent? And how did you guess that one has more of it than the other? Why not Reshevsky or Carlsen as the most talented player, for example? Again, I know it's your opinion but I'm just curious how you formed that opinion. |
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Aug-03-08 | | siamesedream: Morozevich did it... 0-1 |
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Aug-03-08 | | percyblakeney: Carlsen and Morozevich only lost against Anand, while Anand was the only player Polgar didn't lose against. |
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Aug-03-08 | | siamesedream: <percyblakeney: Carlsen and Morozevich only lost against Anand, while Anand was the only player Polgar didn't lose against.> Hence, Anand was the only gentleman there ;) |
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Aug-03-08
 | | keypusher: Congrats to Anand for a great performance! |
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Aug-03-08 | | visayanbraindoctor: <you vs yourself> From your avatar, you are a Carlsen fan so lets get straight to the point. I know that it would disappoint you if I were to say that IMO, Carlsen has the 'sight' but not as strong as Anand. 'Chess sight' is something you are born with. We all saw it at work today, with Anand blitzing out purposeful harmonious moves without loss of tempi, and always choosing the perfect plan (in terms of safety and causing trouble for his opponent) for all his positions, and all in an extremely rapid manner. Carlsen on the other hand at certain points of his games with Anand, gave the me the impression that he was just waiting for Anand to do something. At times he did not seem to have a clear plan. He quickly got into time trouble apparently because he was not sure what he ought to do. You can replay the games yourself as they have just occurred. I am not taking anything away from Carlsen. In the 17 to 27 age bracket, he plays the strongest IMO. So one day he will probably become World Champion, unless a younger player with the abilities of a Capablanca or Anand comes along before he gets the Title. If you replay the games of Capablanca, you would find the same clear, purposeful, effortless play as Anand, always choosing excellent plans in any given position, with no hesitation or aimless moves or shuffling around of pieces. Except that IMO Capa did it better. I am not taking anything away from Anand; next to Capa he has the best 'chess sight' in history IMO. |
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Aug-03-08 | | percyblakeney: <Hence, Anand was the only gentleman there ;)> With all time controls Moro and Carlsen have in total +11 -0 =8 against Polgar, so they are definitely not trying to be nice. :-) |
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Aug-03-08 | | you vs yourself: <visayan> I'm a fan of whoever is playing good chess. Whether it's Anand, Carlsen, Topalov, Kramnik, Aronian or Ivanchuk...the list goes on. But if all these players are playing good chess in one tournament, I'd root for Anand because he and I are from the same country;-) But I didn't ask you about how you measured talent because my favorite players are being left out or anything but I asked because I'm genuinely curious. Almost all super GMs play with clear, purposeful plan at all times. Sometimes, you may think it's shuffling pieces because you aren't thinking at their level yet. But I can assure you that they don't make aimless moves very often. Still, I don't get why you think Capablanca is more talented than Morphy. Have you seen Karpov play aimlessly or without a clear plan? If not, why is he not more talented than Capa? |
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Aug-03-08 | | visayanbraindoctor: <you vs yourself> You are also probably an Anand fan too. By the way, Visaya is Sanskrit word, roughly meaning 'our own country' and alternatively 'happy' but that's another story. I know that GMs don't often make useless moves. They are GMs precisely because all of them to a greater or lesser degree have the 'sight' plus superb calculative ability (but not as much as the 'super' GMs). <Still, I don't get why you think Capablanca is more talented than Morphy.>
I already told you, I got the impression by re-playing their games. Naturally, this impression cannot be quantified, which is apparently what you want me to do. <Have you seen Karpov play aimlessly or without a clear plan?>
What is your point here? Did you not just read my post that I regard Karpov as having the 'sight' too? If you want me to be specific, IMO Karpov has a stronger chess sight than Carlsen's, but weaker than Anand's. <If not, why is he not more talented than Capa?>
Again you are asking me to quantify my impressions. I just do not have the ability to do that. Instead, you could re-play their games. and see what impressions they bring to you. |
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Aug-03-08 | | Ishaan: It is rapid chess, fine. Carlsen, who is on such a strong run this past 2 years and is beating many strong grandmasters convincingly, was defeated so easily by Anand. Makes me wonder if Anand and Kramnik are on a completely different level than other 2750+ GMs. |
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Aug-03-08 | | you vs yourself: <Again you are asking me to quantify my impressions. I just do not have the ability to do that.> Fair enough. |
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Aug-03-08 | | frogbert: ishaan, no, i don't think so. but it's no coincidence that anand is the current world champion and world number one, kramnik the previous champion, and that the two of them will battle it out for world championship in just a short period of time. :o) btw, carlsen has played 61 classical games so far this year, anand has played 27, kramnik has played 20. most of the players carlsen has faced, have also had much more busy schedules than anand (and kramnik), so in addition to "level", it might also have something to do with energy. carlsen played classical games on monday, tuesday, wednesday and thursday, slept little from thursday to friday due to the weather, travelled to mainz by train, and arrived about half an hour before the first game on friday evening, etc. it might have influenced the amount of resistance he was able to put up against anand this time. so there's no reason to make hasty conclusions based on 3 rapid games (the 4th one was no game), imho. :o) |
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Aug-03-08 | | roni.chessman: <It is rapid chess, fine. Carlsen, who is on such a strong run this past 2 years and is beating many strong grandmasters convincingly, was defeated so easily by Anand. Makes me wonder if Anand and Kramnik are on a completely different level than other 2750+ GMs.> I wouldn't say Anand beat Carlsen "easily". Its more likely that Carlsen lost a lot of morale in the second game. Do you remember that game where Carlsen attacked and overpressed against Anand (was it Corus or Linares 2008?) while missing a key move that could've won him the game. Anand is just superb when calculating positions at blitz/rapid time controls. I bet Radjabov could match Carlsen in rapid/blitz time controls. <Also,> I always wonder why Kramnik is regarded so high. I'll give Kramnik the credit that he is possibly one of the greatest match players in history. His extreme patience and solid defense is similar to "watching paint dry" for his opponents. But in all honesty, Kramnik is just an above-average tournament player in the 2700 field. Compared to Karpov, whose playing style is very similar, Kramnik's record in comparison without a doubt along lines of sucking. |
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Aug-03-08 | | frogbert: <Anand is just superb when calculating positions at blitz/rapid time controls.> therefore it was a bit strange that he missed the best continuation after the spectacular nh6+!! against moro - he even thought for several minutes after kh8 nxf7+ kg8 had been played, but still only came up with ne4?! ... i mean, the lines after bxh7+! was very, very forcing, so what might he have missed? the qb3-f7 manouver? it's strange if he didn't consider bxh7, so i think he must have had a look on that (totally crushing) move. |
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Aug-03-08 | | gazzawhite: <SetNoEscapeOn: Anand is the best rapid player in the world; we knew that already. And Carlsen was able to reach the final despite his wild playing schedule, so it's not a failure for him. He has finished no worse than 2nd this entire year!> Didn't he just come 3rd in Biel, less than a week ago? |
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Aug-03-08 | | SetNoEscapeOn: Two players finished ahead of him, tied for first. He made the second best score. But yes, by convention he was third. |
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Aug-04-08 | | dramas79: <Annie K> Read your post in the City of Moscow. Keep up the good work! |
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Aug-04-08 | | myschkin: . . .
http://www.chesstigers.de/ccm8_inde... |
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Aug-04-08 | | siamesedream: Read and help:
http://www.chessdom.com/dusan-popovic |
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Aug-04-08 | | Atking: <btw, carlsen has played 61 classical games so far this year, anand has played 27, kramnik has played 20. most of the players carlsen has faced, have also had much more busy schedules than anand (and kramnik), so in addition to "level", it might also have something to do with energy.> Indeed frogbert you agree that Carlsen is playing too much and should take a break. |
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Aug-04-08 | | Pawnsgambit: Here is video if any one is interested
http://ishare.rediff.com/filevideo-... |
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Aug-04-08
 | | ketchuplover: I thought Anand beat Carlsen twice. |
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Aug-04-08 | | yalie: thanks <pawnsgambit> I wonder when cg.com is going to update the games. |
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Aug-04-08 | | Bobsterman3000: Wow, Vishy looking a little chubby in that video. He's put on a few pounds. |
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Aug-04-08
 | | alexmagnus: <Carlsen is playing too much and should take a break> Didn't he play even more than that in 2007? |
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