|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-10-09 | | percyblakeney: China won 2.5-1.5 against Poland and in spite of big losses against Ukraine and USA they are more or less clear winners already before the final round. Their opponents Vietnam have seven losses and one draw in eight matches and it will probably be enough for China to draw the match to win the gold once again. |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | percyblakeney: China won the gold even if it wasn't with a big margin in the end. Russia also scored 12 match points but 21.0 game points while China had 21.5. Gunina's forfeit in the 1.5-2.5 match against India was costly, she scored 6.5/7 in her other games. |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | siamesedream: Very bad finish by my compatriots - Polish players. They were leading most of the tourmanent, to finish 6th. Pity that Monika Soæko didn't play. Anyway, congratulations to all teams, especially to winners. |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | DCP23: <percyblakeney: Gunina's forfeit in the 1.5-2.5 match against India was costly, she scored 6.5/7 in her other games.> Yep. Not only did it lose that match, turns out it cost the gold medal overall. The only consolation is forfeits such as this one are not rated AFAIK, and with all her other games won Gunina will pickup a big chunk of rating points. |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | DCP23: In fact, Gunina was the best player in the whole Championship. |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | Don Cossacks: <DCP23Yep. Not only did it lose that match, turns out it cost the gold medal overall. The only consolation is forfeits such as this one are not rated AFAIK, and with all her other games won Gunina will pickup a big chunk of rating points.>
Russia should have won this event if those forfeits were avoided.What's the reason for Gunina's forfeit?
Still a creditable 2nd place(silver) for Russia!As I've said before they can do it! |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | DCP23: <Don Cossacks: What's the reason for Gunina's forfeit?> Being late for the start of the round either for 1 min or for 2 seconds (yes, TWO SECONDS) according to two different sources. See my post dated Sep-06-09 here:
Women's World Team Championship (2007) |
|
| Sep-11-09 | | slomarko: indeed it seems to be a bit crazy to forfeit a player for being two seconds late. just out of curiousity who were the arbiters? |
|
| Sep-12-09 | | percyblakeney: In the last round China drew all their games against Vietnam, I wonder if there is something wrong with the PGN here, since the Vietnamese player offered the draw that gave China the gold in an obviously winning position otherwise. [Event "2nd Women World Team Chess Championship"]
[Site "Ningbo China"]
[Date "2009.09.12"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Pham, Bich Ngoc"]
[Black "Huang, Qian"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 d5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. cxd5
Nxd5 7. Nc3 Nb6 8. d3 c6 9. Be3 h6 10. Qd2 Kh7 11. Rac1
N8d7 12. b4 Nd5 13. Nxd5 cxd5 14. Qc2 e5 15. Qc7 d4 16. Bd2
Nb6 17. Qxd8 Rxd8 18. Rc5 f6 19. Nh4 f5 20. f4 exf4 21. gxf4 Re8 22. Kf2 Re7 23. Rg1 Be6 24. Bh3 Bf7 25. Bxf5 gxf5 26. Nxf5 Bf6 27. Nxe7 Bxe7 28. Rc7 Nd5 29. Rxb7 Be6 30. e4 dxe3+ 31. Bxe3 Bc8 32. Bd4 h5 33. Rxe7+ Nxe7
34. Rg7+ Kh6 35. Rxe7 a6 36. Re8 Kg6 37. Bc5 1/2-1/2
click for larger viewAlso Hou Yifan was worse when draw was agreed, but far from losing. In both games the Vietnamese players were more than 300 points lower rated. |
|
Sep-12-09
 | | Open Defence: they're all commies..... |
|
| Sep-13-09 | | Don Cossacks: < Open Defence: they're all commies..... >
So what?Anything wrong?I hope this is not a provocation. |
|
Sep-13-09
| | Open Defence: < Don Cossacks > it was a reference to a similar comment by Fischer.... |
|
| Sep-13-09 | | percyblakeney: Chessdom wrote that <the events of the last round were more than dramatic. The team of Vietnam have tried on several occassions to get a victory, and was left several times half a game point from it. This time they put up a real battle against China> but I wonder if they base their report on the official site. The information given by the Chinese organiser makes it look like the most prearranged draw ever rather than a hard fought match. But the most probable explanation is that something was wrong with the PGN files, if you agreed to draw a match (as often seems to happen in last rounds) it would hardly be done like this. http://www.chessdom.com/news-2009/w... |
|
| Sep-13-09 | | percyblakeney: TWIC's description of the match is <a hard fought draw with long games> and base this on the same PGN. Susan Polgar writes in her blog that China almost lost the match, without going into any details. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | percyblakeney: To me this competition lost some credibility for several reasons, that give an unsatisfactory impression when combined. To begin with China had two teams, and China B played their weakest line-up only against China A. China B lost clearly to China A but drew Ukraine. The latter team ended up on 12 match points as China A in the final table because of those results, otherwise they would have been ahead. According to Russian sources Gunina was forfeited by the Arbiter for being two seconds away from the board when her game was to start, and without that decision China wouldn’t have won. Then in the last round China-Vietnam looked very pre-arranged. The fact that they did it in such an obvious way is even a bit offensive, they could at least have tried to make it look as if it was fair play. It isn’t exactly unheard of with four draws in the last round, but you don’t take them in positions like in the diagram above. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | slomarko: Having followed this competition each day on the web I tend to agree with percyblakeney. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | ChessXin: <percyblakeney> I think China A wins fairly.
First, China has two teams because Cuba didn't send its team to play.
Second, sure China B didn't play Tang Zhongyi when it played China A, neither did Hou yifan played that match. China B drew Ukraine, but it also lost to Russia and other teams. If China B really wants to help China A, why wouldn't they loss 0:4 to China A?
Third, as for Russia forfeited a game because of being late, this is FIDE¡¯s rule. It doesn¡¯t matter if you are 1 second late or 1 minute late.
Finally, for China-Vietnam match, according to Chinese media (Sina, Sohu,etc.), during the match, when China A's coaches saw board 4 was losing, they decided to suggest 4 draws to Vietnam team and Vietnam team agreed (This is allowed by the rules ¨C what a strange rule!). At that time, all the other matches were still going on. If Russia or Ukraine win big, China A wouldn't be the winner. They took a risk and the strategy worked. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | percyblakeney: <ChessXin>
Hou Yifan came immediately from her European event without a single rest day and I suppose that was why she couldn't play against China B. Maybe another team would have tried to take advantage of that instead of resting their best player, but as with the Gunina forfeit maybe nothing to question if not for that last round, that looked dubious to me. <Finally, for China-Vietnam match, according to Chinese media (Sina, Sohu,etc.), during the match, when China A's coaches saw board 4 was losing, they decided to suggest 4 draws to Vietnam team and Vietnam team agreed (This is allowed by the rules ¨C what a strange rule!). At that time, all the other matches were still going on. If Russia or Ukraine win big, China A wouldn't be the winner. They took a risk and the strategy worked> In Ukraine's match two games were still being played when China-Vietnam was drawn. Ukraine won both and ended up 1.0 game point behind, so they had no chance of passing China. Russia had three games left and won two, if they had won also the third (a dead drawn endgame) they would still have finished behind China on worse third tiebreak. So China's gold was certain when Vietnam for some reason (that would be very interesting to hear) agreed to draw a match they otherwise seemed to be winning. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | percyblakeney: If the China-Vietnam match was a fair contest from beginning to end the most surprising thing is maybe that Vietnam was playing so well. Their 2265-rated first board player won 1 of her 9 games but had a big advantage with black against her by far strongest opponent Hou Yifan. Vietnam's 2145-rated fourth board wasn't close to winning a game in the whole event before the last round, but there she was winning easily against Huang (6/8 and performing 2500+). |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | whiteshark: It was all rigged in advance. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | SetNoEscapeOn: I was just about to write the standard "these allegations are very serious/don't rush to judgment stuff", but then I saw Bich Ngoc Pham vs Huang Qian, 2009
Filthy! |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | slomarko: I think allowing a nation to have two teams in a RR is just wrong. If Cuba failed to show up they should have with continued with 7 teams. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | percyblakeney: If foul play was indeed involved it all looks unnecessarily obvious, and the only explanation I can think of to that is that the players aren't used to play long prearranged draws and make them look believable. The games had to continue long enough to make it clear that four draws would be enough, and as soon as that was certain the games ended. I wonder what would have happened if Russia had scored 4-0 against China B though. If the PGN is correct (I do doubt it, but I doubted the other games as well so who knows) Zhao Xue both hung a piece and allowed a simple mate in two, with the opponent "blundering back" both times until they reached a fairly even position. Hou Yifan had a big advantage but avoided the best continuations and ended up much worse instead, and with her last move before the draw offer her opponent halved Shredder’s -1.8 evaluation. Huang was also better initially and went wrong to end up in a totally lost position, when her opponent was ordered to offer draw. It is of course possible to explain the last round differently than that it was prearranged, but I have my doubts about those other explanations... It would definitely not be the first or last time time a match in the final round of a team competition is prearranged, in these cases it is usually a question of four GM draws though. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | dumbgai: I hate to jump to conclusions about match fixing or other illegal behavior, but the final round match between China 1 and Vietnam does look very suspicious to me. |
|
| Sep-15-09 | | yalie: I too was about to say "much ado about nothing" till I saw the game. This is filthy, very filthy! <China A's coaches saw board 4 was losing, they decided to suggest 4 draws to Vietnam team and Vietnam team agreed > I wonder why Vietnam agreed. They were clearly winning the match! It should be obvious to patzers that Huang Qian was losing! What does vietnam gain by drawing a match they were winning hands down? It is not like they were worse off on the other boards. At a minimum, this calls for a serios investigation! |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
