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| Apr-09-09 | | anandrulez: DJ in 1998 was much powerful . This sac would not have been allowed by modern comps I think . It was a strategic sac and forced one since the bishop pin was too much for white o handle . |
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| Apr-09-09 | | anandrulez: Kasparov still I think had good chance vs the best of the best comps ... |
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| Apr-09-09 | | anandrulez: Example Kasparov vs 3d Fritz the first tourney that got me excited about chess...I think fritzie was more powerful than DJ 1998 |
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| May-06-09 | | inBerlin: Could I have a question guys,
I just googled because I do not get it at the very beginning,
why is deep blue not making the move 3....Bxf3, would that not be a an easy going open the e line move, as well as creating a double pawn,
I do expect that this is a question below your expectations, but I just dont`t get it,regards
Neil |
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| May-07-09 | | AnalyzeThis: At some point, you learn about color complexes. Half the squares on the board are white, and if you give up that bishop so early, white gets the two bishops, and likely domination of the white squares (half the board) later in the game. The move might be playable, though, if black were to religously put all his pawns on white squares and leave them there. Such a formation though, is very rigid. |
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| May-07-09 | | apple pi: The move Bxf3 is certainly playable, but the open e-file is not necessarily bad for white, who can quickly castle k-side and station his rook at e1. Furthermore, white will get to play Pf3-f4 at some point, and this coupled with Re1 and Bb2 will give him firm command of the e5 square. |
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May-07-09
 | | JointheArmy: <To be frank, much of this game goes over my head.> Perhaps the perplexing game of chess I've ever semi-anaylzed. Even going over the moves with an engine, I don't understand what's going on. If any game demonstrated the importance of long term strategy in chess, its this one. |
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| May-07-09 | | apple pi: <Even going over the moves with an engine, I don't understand what's going on.> Well, if your engine happens to be Deep Blue... ;) |
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| May-07-09 | | inBerlin: Thanks a lot for your inner sight, really kind of you, best regards from berlin, cheers |
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| May-07-09 | | RandomVisitor: Garry Kasparov - Deep Blue (Computer) [A07]
IBM Man-Machine, New York USA 01, 1997
[Rybka 3 ]
1.Nf3 d5
2.g3 Bg4
3.b3 Nd7
4.Bb2 e6
5.Bg2 Ngf6
6.0-0 c6
7.d3 Bd6
8.Nbd2 0-0
9.h3 Bh5
10.e3 h6
11.Qe1 last book move
11...Qa5 0.11/18
12.a3 -0.12/15 Bc7= 0.24/16
[Rybka 3 : 12...Bg6 13.Ne4 Qxe1 14.Nxf6  -0.12/15 ] 13.Nh4= 0.00/16
[Rybka 3 : 13.e4 Rac8 14.Rc1 Qb6 15.e5 Nh7 16.d4 Bd8 17.c4 Bxf3 18.Bxf3 Bg5 19.b4 Be7= 0.24/16 ] 13...g5= 0.13/18
[Rybka 3 : 13...Qc5 14.Rc1 a5 15.f4 g5 16.fxg5 hxg5 17.g4 gxh4 18.gxh5 Nxh5 19.Qe2 Ng7 20.Bxg7 Kxg7 21.Qg4+ Kh7 22.Qxh4+ Kg6 23.Qg4 0.00/16 ] 14.Nhf3 0.00/16 e5= 0.13/17
[Rybka 3 : 14...Bg6 15.e4 Rad8 16.e5 Nh5 17.Qe2 Qb6 18.Bd4= 0.00/16 ] 15.e4= 0.00/17
[Rybka 3 : 15.Rc1 Rfe8 16.c4 Bg6 17.cxd5 cxd5 18.e4 Rac8 19.Qe2 Qa6 20.Nh2 Kg7 21.Rfe1 d4 22.b4= 0.13/17 ] 15...Rfe8= 0.16/16
[Rybka 3 : 15...Rae8 16.b4 Qa4 17.c4 dxe4 18.dxe4 Re6 19.Qe3 Rd8 20.Bc3 c5 21.Rfb1 Bb6 22.Qe2 Bg6= 0.00/17 ] 16.Nh2= -0.14/16
[Rybka 3 : 16.Qe2 Qc5 17.c4 d4= 0.16/16 ]
16...Qb6² 0.27/18
[Rybka 3 : 16...Qc5 17.Rc1 Qd6 18.Bf3 Bxf3 19.Nhxf3 Qe6 20.Kg2 Bd6 21.Qe2 a5 22.Rfe1 b5 23.Rb1= -0.14/16 ] 17.Qc1= -0.09/17
[Rybka 3 : 17.Ng4 Bxg4 18.hxg4 d4 19.Nc4 Qa6 20.Qe2 b5 21.Nd2 Rad8 22.a4 b4 23.Bf3 Kg7 24.Rfe1 Qc8 25.Kg2 Re6 26.Rh1² 0.27/18 ] 17...a5= 0.19/17
[Rybka 3 : 17...Rad8 18.Re1 Bg6 19.Ng4 Nxg4 20.hxg4 Nf6 21.Qd1 h5 22.gxh5 Bxh5 23.Bf3 g4 24.Bg2 Bg6 25.Qe2 a5 26.exd5 cxd5 27.Nf1 a4= -0.09/17 ] 18.Re1= -0.03/15
[Rybka 3 : 18.Ng4 Bxg4 19.hxg4 Nc5 20.Qd1 dxe4 21.Bxe4 Ncxe4 22.Nxe4 Nxe4 23.dxe4 a4 24.Qf3 Qc5 25.Rac1 Rad8 26.Rfd1 axb3 27.cxb3 Qe7 28.Rxd8 Rxd8 29.Rd1 Rxd1+ 30.Qxd1 Kg7 31.Kg2= 0.19/17 ] 18...Bd6= 0.24/17
[Rybka 3 : 18...Qa7 19.Nhf1 d4 20.g4 Bg6 21.Ng3 Rad8 22.Nf5 Bxf5 23.exf5 Nb6 24.Ne4 Nxe4 25.Bxe4 Nd5 26.Bxd5 Rxd5 27.Qd2= -0.03/15 ] 19.Ndf1= -0.12/17
[Rybka 3 : 19.Nhf1 Bc5 20.Ne3 Bg6 21.c3 Bxe3 22.Rxe3 Nc5 23.Qc2 dxe4 24.dxe4 Rad8 25.b4 Rxd2 26.Qxd2 Nb3 27.Qd6 Nxa1 28.Bxa1 Re6 29.Qd3 c5= 0.24/17 ] 19...dxe4= 0.07/19
[Rybka 3 : 19...d4 20.Nd2 Bf8 21.Nhf3 Qa6 22.a4 b5 23.Ba3 Bxa3 24.Qxa3 Bg6 25.Reb1 Re6 26.Re1 Qb6= -0.12/17 ] 20.dxe4 -0.02/17 Bc5= 0.07/17
[Rybka 3 : 20...Bg6 21.Ne3 Bc5 22.Nhg4= -0.02/17 ]
21.Ne3= -0.02/16
[Rybka 3 : 21.Qd2 Rad8 22.Ne3 Re6 23.f3 Rd6 24.Qf2 Bg6 25.Nhf1 Qc7 26.Rad1 b5 27.Nh2 Bd4= 0.07/17 ] 21...Rad8= 0.10/17
[Rybka 3 : 21...Bg6 22.Nhg4 Nxg4 23.Nxg4 Kg7 24.Rd1 Rad8 25.Rb1 h5 26.b4 axb4 27.axb4 Bxb4 28.Nxe5 Nxe5 29.Bxe5+ Rxe5 30.Rxd8 Qxd8 31.Rxb4 Qe7 32.Qb2 Qf6 33.Qa3 b5= -0.02/16 ] 22.Nhf1= -0.19/17
[Rybka 3 : 22.Bc3 Kh7 23.Nhf1 Bg6 24.Qd2 Qa7 25.Nf5 Nb6 26.Qe2 Bd4 27.Qf3 Bxc3 28.Qxc3 Bxf5 29.exf5 Nbd5 30.Qc4 Kg7 31.Nd2= 0.10/17 ] 22...g4² 0.38/16
[Rybka 3 : 22...Bg6 23.Nd2 Qc7 24.Re2 Bf8 25.Nf5 b5 26.Bc3 Nd5 27.Bb2 Ne7 28.Ne3 Nc5 29.Qe1 Bg7 30.a4= -0.19/17 ] 23.hxg4= 0.20/19
[Rybka 3 : 23.Nd2 Qa6 24.hxg4 Nxg4 25.Nxg4 Bxg4 26.Nc4 Kh7 27.Bc3 a4 28.Ne3 Nf6 29.b4 Bd4 30.Bxd4 Rxd4 31.Nxg4 Nxg4 32.Bh3² 0.38/16 ] 23...Nxg4² 0.45/20
[Rybka 3 : 23...Bxg4 24.Bc3 Be6 25.Qd2 Qa7 26.Rad1 Bb6 27.Qc1 Bd4 28.Qb2= 0.20/19 ] |
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| May-07-09 | | RandomVisitor: Continued:
24.f3 0.45/18 Nxe3 0.45/19
25.Nxe3 0.26/17 Be7² 0.55/16
[Rybka 3 : 25...Kg7 26.Kh2 Bg6 27.Nc4 Qc7 28.Bc3 Bd4 29.Bxd4 exd4 30.Qd2 Ne5 31.Qxa5 Qxa5 32.Nxa5 Re7 33.Nc4 Nxc4 34.bxc4 Ra8 35.a4 f6 36.a5² 0.26/17 ] 26.Kh1² 0.37/18
[Rybka 3 : 26.Rb1 Qa7 27.Kh2 Bg5 28.Qd2 a4 29.b4 Nf8 30.Qf2 Bxe3 31.Rxe3 f6 32.f4 Ng6 33.Rbe1 b5 34.Rf1² 0.55/16 ] 26...Bg5 0.37/18
27.Re2= 0.14/17
[Rybka 3 : 27.Qd2 a4 28.b4 c5 29.Qe2 Bxe3 30.Qxe3 cxb4 31.axb4 Qxb4 32.Reb1 Qc4 33.Qxh6 Bg6 34.Bc1 Nc5 35.Ba3 b5 36.Bf1 Qxc2 37.Rc1² 0.37/18 ] 27...a4= 0.25/19
[Rybka 3 : 27...Nc5 28.Qe1 a4= 0.14/17 ]
28.b4 0.01/16 f5² 0.34/19
[Rybka 3 : 28...Nf8 29.Qg1 Ne6 30.Nf5 Qxg1+ 31.Kxg1 Ng7 32.Ne3 f6 33.Kf2 Bf7 34.Rh1 Rd6 35.Bh3 Red8 36.Bc3 h5= 0.01/16 ] 29.exf5 0.14/19 e4 0.34/19
30.f4 0.14/19 Bxe2 0.34/19
31.fxg5 0.34/19 Ne5 0.34/18
32.g6 0.34/17 Bf3² 0.68/14
[Rybka 3 : 32...Rd7 33.c4 Bf3 34.Bxe5 Rxe5 35.c5 Qb5 36.Ra2 Qd3 37.Kg1 Qd4 38.Kh2 Rd8 39.Rc2 Kg7 40.Rf2 Qd7 41.Bh3² 0.34/17 ] 33.Bc3= 0.00/18
[Rybka 3 : 33.Qe1 h5 34.Bc3 Qc7 35.Qg1 Rd7 36.Qf2 Qd6 37.Kg1 Rf8 38.Bxf3 exf3 39.Re1 Re7 40.Rd1² 0.68/14 ] 33...Qb5± 0.75/17
[Rybka 3 : 33...Rd7 34.Bxe5 Rxe5 35.Bxf3 exf3= 0.00/18 ] 34.Qf1= 0.00/18
[Rybka 3 : 34.Qe1 Nxg6 35.fxg6 Qh5+ 36.Kg1 Qxg6 37.Bh3 Rf8 38.Kh2 Qh5 39.Qg1 Kh7 40.Re1 Rd7 41.Rf1 Rff7 42.Rf2 c5 43.bxc5 Qxc5± 0.75/17 ] 34...Qxf1+² 0.46/22
[Rybka 3 : 34...h5 35.Kg1 Ng4 36.Qxb5 cxb5 37.Re1 Nxe3 38.Rxe3 Rd1+ 39.Kh2 Bxg2 40.Kxg2 Rc8 41.f6 Rc1 42.Kh3 Rh1+ 43.Kg2 Rc1 44.Kh3 Rh1+ 45.Kg2 Rc1 46.Kh3 Rh1+ 47.Kg2 Rc1 48.Kh3 Rh1+ 49.Kg2 Rc1= 0.00/18 ] 35.Rxf1 0.46/21 h5 0.46/20
36.Kg1 0.46/19 Kf8± 0.74/20
[Rybka 3 : 36...Ng4 37.f6 Re6 38.Bh3 Rxf6 39.Bxg4 Rxg6 40.Bh3 Rxg3+ 41.Kh2 Rg5 42.Rf2 Rf8 43.Bd4 Bg4 44.Rg2 Rf4 45.Bb2 Rg6 46.Be5 Rf3 47.Nxg4 hxg4 48.Bxg4 Rf1 49.Bd4 Kf8 50.Kh3 Ke7 51.Kh4 Rh1+² 0.46/19 ] 37.Bh3 0.74/19 b5 0.85/20
38.Kf2 0.79/18 Kg7?  2.63/18
[Rybka 3 : 38...Rd6 39.Rg1 Re7 40.g4 hxg4 41.Bxg4 Bxg4 42.Nxg4 Nxg6 43.fxg6 Rxg6 44.Ke3 Rf7 45.Bd4 Ke7 46.Kxe4 Ke6 47.Ke3 Rf5 48.Bc5 Rfg5 49.Kf4 Rf5+ 50.Ke4 Rg8 51.Ke3 Rfg5 52.Kf3± 0.79/18 ] 39.g4 2.27/16 Kh6 3.05/18
[Rybka 3 : 39...Kf6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Kg3 Kg5 42.g7 Nf3 43.f6 Bg6 44.Bg4 Bf7 45.Rh1 Nd4 46.Rd1 Nf5+ 47.Nxf5 Rxd1 48.Bxd1 Kxf5 49.Kh4 Ke6 50.Kg5 e3 51.Bf3 Kd6 52.Be2 Re4 2.27/16 ] 40.Rg1 3.05/14 hxg4 3.05/23
41.Bxg4 3.05/20 Bxg4 3.05/21
42.Nxg4+ 3.05/24 Nxg4+ 3.21/23
43.Rxg4 3.21/20 Rd5 3.21/22
44.f6 2.83/20 Rd1? 8.98/17
[Rybka 3 : 44...Rg8 45.g7 Rf5+ 46.Ke2 2.83/20 ] 45.g7 9.68/18 1-0 |
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| May-07-09 | | RandomVisitor: Note that 34...h5 appears to equalize for black. |
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| May-07-09 | | AnalyzeThis: Is today's Rybka stronger than yesterday's Deeper Blue, which was so big (physically) and took down Kasparov? I guess we'll never really know. |
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| May-08-09 | | whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
Wonderful work, thanks! I wonder, is 38...Kg7 really a catastrophic mistake, or does the evaluation for 38...Rd6 drop away on deeper analysis. And if 38...Kg7 is a losing move, at what ply depth does Rybka realise this? |
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| May-08-09 | | RandomVisitor: <whatthefat>Rybka sees 38...Kg7 start fading gradually betreen 13 and 16-ply. After 38.Kf2
1: Garry Kasparov - Deep Blue (Computer), IBM Man-Machine, New York USA 1997
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 :
[+0.85] d=25 38...Rd6 39.Re1 Re7 40.Rg1 Re8 41.g4 hxg4 42.Bxg4 Bxg4 43.Nxg4 Nxg6 44.fxg6 Rxg6 45.Ke3 Ke7 46.Kxe4 Ke6 47.Bd2 Rh8 48.Be3 Rgg8 49.Kf4 Rh7 50.Bd4 Rf7+ 51.Ke4 Rh7 52.Bc5 Rhg7 04:15:07 910736kN, tb=5 |
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| May-08-09 | | whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
That's great, thank you again. I guess it's hard to know how long Deep Blue had to look at the position for its 38th move, but it seems it didn't manage to look as deep as an equivalent 13-16 ply on Rybka. It's interesting to compare these results with an earlier discussion I had regarding how deep the engine was seeing compared to more modern engines: Deep Blue (Computer) |
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| May-16-09 | | Dionyseus: <whatthefat> < That's great, thank you again. I guess it's hard to know how long Deep Blue had to look at the position for its 38th move, but it seems it didn't manage to look as deep as an equivalent 13-16 ply on Rybka > The logfile should indicate the exact time Deep Blue took to make the move. I'll check the log. |
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| May-16-09 | | Dionyseus: <whatthefat> If i'm interpreting the logfile correctly then according to the logfile Deep Blue searched to a brute-force depth of 8 with extensions to depth 19 and took 173 seconds to make its 38th move. The variation Deep Blue considered best was:
38...Kf8g7 39.pg3g4 Ph5h4 40.pg4g5 Kg7g8 41.bh3g2 Kg8f8 42.kf2g1 Rd8d7 43.bc3e5N Re8e5b 44.bg2f3B Pe4f3 |
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| May-16-09 | | Dionyseus: <AnalyseThis> <Is today's Rybka stronger than yesterday's Deeper Blue, which was so big (physically) and took down Kasparov? I guess we'll never really know. >
I am certain Rybka and the other top engines of today are much stronger than Deep Blue. I estimate Deep Blue was around 2600 elo, but with Kasparov's psychological weakness in that match to him it seemed Deep Blue was closer to 2800, whereas Kasparov played perhaps at a little below 2600, his performance was quite terrible in that match. In comparison it is believed by many that Rybka 3 on strong hardware performs at around 3200. Top competitors such as Naum 4 and Deep Fritz 11 are easily at 3000 with top hardware. |
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| May-16-09 | | Dionyseus: <Dionyseus> < If i'm interpreting the logfile correctly then according to the logfile Deep Blue searched to a brute-force depth of 8 with extensions to depth 19 and took 173 seconds to make its 38th move. > I was incorrect. For its 38th move Deep Blue searched to a brute-force depth of 12, not counting search extensions. This is indicated by the "12(6)" in the log file. Here's the full definition of "12(6)" from Deep Blue's programmer: 12(6) means 12 plies of brute force (not
counting the search extensions & quiescence).
6 means the maximum hardware search depth
allowed. This means that the PV could be up to 6 plies
deeper before quiescence. |
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| May-17-09 | | whatthefat: <Dionyseus>
That's really interesting, thanks! Sounds like it was seeing about as far as Fritz on my old laptop then - which is still perfectly good enough to beat me. :) |
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Jul-01-09
 | | Check It Out: I really enjoyed this game. Kasparov was such a flexible player. Switching from his usual attacking style to this positional game is amazing, particularly under the "metal pressure" of the event. A visually interesting game. After black's 14th move, all Kasparov's pawns and pieces are on the first three ranks and all blacks pieces are on the 5th-8th ranks and there is this great divide on the 4th rank with nothing; you can practically feel the tension of the two armies about to clash. And then, as has been commented, 39.g4 followed by a bunch of trades on the same, and the computer finally realizes, "uh oh, I'm screwed." |
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Jul-04-09
| | Check It Out: Deep Blue's 28...f4, 29...e5 plan falls prey to Kasparov's incredible exchange sacrifice 30.f4! The computer must not be able to see the power of the connected passed f and g passed pawns due to the horizon effect; 31.Ne5 blocks the a1-h8 diagonal but allows 31...g6, securing the powerfully potent and perfectly preening pumped-up passed pawn duo. (sorry for the bad alliteration riff there) |
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| Sep-30-09 | | kasparvez: How about the G.O.T.D title: "Beaten Black and Blue"? |
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| Apr-18-10 | | JonathanJ: i'd prefer kasparvez gotd title ;) |
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Kibitzing
sac: 30.f4