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| Feb-04-07 | | cuendillar: <The move f4 may stop e4 (fxe3 e.p.). Not easy this!> My analysis indicated that generally, opening the e-file is not desirable for black since white can use it to pressure the backward e6 pawn. I didn't find that option playable. |
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Feb-04-07
 | | Tabanus: <cuendillar> The e-file is not opened if white replies fxe3, which I think he should. Then the e3-pawn is backward too. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Whitehat1963: What are the odds on Shulman playing:
1. Bg2
2. Nc3
3. Other |
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| Feb-04-07 | | cuendillar: Shouldn't black place a rook on e1, then? That's how I would prepare the pawn push. Unless f2 gets too weak, it makes more sense that way. |
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Feb-04-07
| | Tabanus: <cuendillar> I see your point. Probably this will depend on the actual position - calculations - if we ever reach there. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | BigShotPlayer: I am new to the whole analyzing chess moves way of life. I was wondering what programs you ppl were using and if it is worth getting for a casual player that wants to get better. Thanks |
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Feb-04-07
 | | sbevan: <benjinathan >
I just emailed Chessgames to ask if they would reinstate the voting trends as with the first game against GM Nickle.
I found it helpful.
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| Feb-04-07 | | AugustAle: <benjinathan:> I enjoy all of your pre and post vote analysis. Don't think flaws and mistakes is quite right as it seems to reflect back to something YOU did wrong. You call em as you see em. If everyone who voted would drop a small kibitz "i voted for e=mc2" then (save for the 2% swamp) we would essentially have open voting, your poll would be the pool. We work in an area very near the other end of the spectrum. Of the 1376 gamers we have a dwindling 437 voters, what? 93 kibitzers and only 38 saying "charge" or "wait". Of course in y/our analysis there are many factors affecting those 400 or so, including (esp at this stage), the opening explorer stats, games YMAN has played stats, conventional wisdom, personal preference, favorite openings, what their computer says to play, influential kibitzing, or the first suggestion they see when they click thru to vote, which of course includes YOU, the prevote preference tabulation.
This dynamic, of the polling results table affecting the voting, is a concern, good or bad, and is why i would ask you to consider consistency as a priority. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | gonefishn: <sbevan> Don't waste your time. If you go back a hundred pages you will see a lot of dicusssion about the issue. CG stated emphatically that we are stuck with this system. Hence Benjinathan's polls. |
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Feb-04-07
| | Tabanus: <AugustAle> I have posted the <rebjorn> statistics you asked for in The World vs A Nickel, 2006 |
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| Feb-04-07 | | AugustAle: <Tabanus:> Thanks, Beautiful. I lotta work. I have the raw data back to 19 but i havent compiled it yet, hoping to get 1-18 from somewhere first, maybe deep in the dungeons of the cg serverfarm,. You've made it easy!, guess i can go watch the game. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | lildimsum7: i've got a deep fritz. Later, i'll post what moves it recommends |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Thorsson: <BigShotPlayer: I am new to the whole analyzing chess moves way of life. I was wondering what programs you ppl were using and if it is worth getting for a casual player that wants to get better. Thanks> If you are pretty much a beginner (in strength if not in years) then no, you are best served by playing lots of unrated blitz games. Engines are good for analysing after the game to find out what tactical shots you missed. Here (kibitzing) we are rather different. People (some, not all) are using the engines to check their own judgements and make sure they are not suggesting moves that are open to immediate refutation. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Thorsson: <ganstaman: <izimbra: I didn't believe that all of black's initial queen strategy in that game (Qe8, Qh5, Qh6) could be best attacking play, so I didn't try to see what could have changed later.> That's a typical queen maneuver in the Dutch (at least in the stonewall> Here we have the nub of it. This is the Dutch Stonewall manoeuvre (Qe8-h5 followed by Rf6-h6) to launch a strong K-side attack. It's a blunt weapon, but no less effective for that. If Black has to be more indirect I very much doubt whether he's going to frighten White. White doesn't have any big weaknesses - only a fast and direct attack is going to "put him off his stroke." |
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Feb-04-07
| | Tabanus: But does not the bishop need to be at d6? Let's say Bd6 first and then maybe Qe8. See e.g. the statistics here: Opening Explorer |
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| Feb-04-07 | | djmercury: <1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Ba6 5. b3 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Be7 7. Bg2 c6 8. Bc3 d5 9. Ne5 Nfd7 10. Nxd7 Nxd7 11. O-O O-O 12. Nd2 f5 13. Qc2 Qe8 14. a4 Nf6> What about 14. ... f4 instead of Nf6? Black can't close the queenside in this line as 15. a5 can't be followed by 16. c5 after b5 because of b4 with the treath of Bxe2. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Thorsson: <Tabanus> That's the Dutch. This isn't. Here Bd6 costs a tempo. It's playable, but not necessarily better. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | ChessNe1: i say he will follow up with 7.Bg2, and then we play d5 8.cxd5 exd5 9.O-O Bb7. i am not crazy about the dutch aspect. that might only confuse us more than him. |
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Feb-04-07
| | sbevan: <gonefishn> I missed that - time constraints. Thanks for the information |
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Feb-04-07
| | Tabanus: <Thorsson> Right, it costs a tempo. Maybe only after a4 we are forced to decide, if the queenside gets blocked by a5 - b5 - c5. So Qe8 at once could be best. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Artar1: <Yury versus World Team Forum News> Here's an opportunity to participate in the decision making process for the World Team. Post your views on the forums that have formed and have your work saved for easy access by all! If you would like to open a forum on a proposed move or on another topic related to this game, please let me know, and I will include your forum here. High-Powered Rybka Analysis User: RandomVisitor General QID Topics User: viennalover QID Game Analysis User: kutztown46 7....Bb7 User: Tenebrous 7.Nc3 TBD
7...c6 User: MrSpock 7...d5 User: Artar1 7...Bb7 TBD
7...0-0 User: Boomie Click on the link to display forum.
Forum leaders, please summarize findings five hours before move deadline for Black. Thanks.
<<themadhair> Summary of 6...c5: This [move] is certainly an interesting way of avoiding the well beaten paths, but it does seem that White easily retains control and an advantage...There isn't enough analysis to back this up as playable, and what analysis there is suggests that white has an easy game.> Game Collection: Top 50 Prep for Shulman |
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Feb-04-07
 | | chrisowen: Little news to add. The damn locals keep rambling about a first past the post bicamal system and something about 'doing the dhobi'?
Reguarding 7..Bb7 Epishin vs N Dzagnidze, 2007 improves
Y Shulman vs Vescovi, 2005 whilst Nbd7/ Ne4 are preferred to Na6 |
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| Feb-04-07 | | Tenebrous: <Yurys student> very very typical, and other subtle variations are also common. Generally they leave white at a slight advantage. In chess engines, the order the moves are examined in is very important. I recently read a paper that described using a neural network to pick the moves most likely to be the best (slightly more complicated than that but details are irrelevant). It increased overhead slightly but resulted in better performance. I just got a practical lesson as to why move ordering is important. There's some law of the universe that says that whatever you're looking for will be found in the last place you search; it's somewhat of a vacuous truth but not always. After spending several days examining an estimated 1 trillion nodes, the very last line I examined (and the first one I entered) turned out to be the best. I believe it may also be the line resulting in choosing the most popular moves after Bb7 in the OE, but now I have a long list of computer analysis that demonstrates why. 7...Bb7 8. Nc3 0-0 9. 0-0 Na6 10. Bc1 Ne4 11. Bb2 f5
After that, Toga gives the following line to 19-ply:
+0.09 12. Nf3e5 Qd8e8 13. e2e3 Be7f6 14. Nc3xe4 Bb7xe4 15. f2f3 Be4b7 16. Qd1d2 Bf6xe5 17. d4xe5 Na6c5 18. Bb2a3 Qe8e7 19. Kg1h1 d7d6 20. b3b4 Nc5a6 21. e5xd6 c7xd6 22. Ra1d1 Rf8d8 23. e3e4 Ra8c8 24. Qd2e2 Doubtless this could be improved upon. Does anyone have any games in this line? |
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| Feb-04-07 | | izimbra: <ganstanman> That's a typical queen maneuver in the Dutch (at least in the stonewall, can't think at the moment about other variations). It's a more or less locked pawn structure, so you can afford the time wasted on queen moves, and we're attacking the kingside so having the queen hanging out there is quite nice.> I'd like to look at an example game that you think transposes to our slightly different setup. One negative example I have is here:
Zsuzsa Polgar vs Karpov, 1992
In this example it seemed clear that opening the h-file helps a player that can bring the heavy artillery pieces into play (I'd actually like to ask Susan Polgar if she baited Karpov into it). Based on that vs. the examples we do have of black winning after 11/12...f5 with kingside pawn advances, I don't see quite what the black queen hopes to accomplish out on the wing.
No question that Karpov could have attacked quicker in that game, but please show me a game where attacking with the queen first is the right strategy. |
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| Feb-04-07 | | izimbra: Here's an actual Dutch Stonewall game if it helps. J Kozma vs V Olexa, 1960
Was there some winning line for black after move 10? Black wins this one but I'm pretty sure white made some major mistakes: Larsen vs J Enevoldsen, 1954 |
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