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Sep-05-13
 | | AylerKupp:  <OhioChessFan> It would be very helpful if you listed the moves that allowed you to get to the position you showed earlier:
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Sep-05-13
 | | OhioChessFan: <capafan: I will change my vote from c4 to g3 and retract my draw offer.> Whereas I accepted fate and changed to c4 with a draw offer. <mr.mac: <g3>, or perhaps <h4>, a subtle, but venturesome quest for Zugzwang and glory or death.> I am very willing to be proven wrong again, but I think h4 and not playing g3 might be better. A long term question. After 35.h4 Kd6 36.g3 f6 37.c4 Rc5 38.Ra1 Ke6 39.Kc3 g6 40.Rd1 Rc8 41.Rd5 Ra8 42. Rb5 f5 43. exf5+ gxf5 44. Rb6+ Kf7 45. Rh6 Rg8 46. Rxh5 Rxg3+ doesn't Kd2 secure the draw? 47. Kd2 Rxb3 48. Rxf5+ Ke6 49. Rf8
click for larger view47...Kg6 48. Rh8 Rxb3 49. h5+ Kg5 50. h6 Rh3 51. Rg8+ Kf6 52. Rf8+ Ke6 53. Re8+ Kd6 (Kf6 54. Rf8+ etc) 54. c5+ Kxc5 55. Rexe5+ Kb6 56. Rxf5 Rxh6 1/2 Not real aesthetically pleasing, but hey. 
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Sep-05-13
| | OhioChessFan: <AK: It would be very helpful if you listed the moves that allowed you to get to the position you showed earlier: > I'll try to recreate it. I have been notcing the lines with h4 first, we have Black playing Kd6 and then eventually back to e6. Not sure if that matters at all, although there are some tempo issues. Regardless, the line I used was: 35. h4 Ke6 (alternative Kd6 but I don't see them playing that) 36. c4 Rc5 37. Kc3 g6 (This is where the game might end, if they just cubbyhole the King) 38. Ra1 f6 (Maybe f5 directly) 39. Rd1 Rc8 (maybe f5) 40. Rd5 Ra8 41. Rb5 f5 42. exf5+ gxf5 43. Rb6+ Kf7 44. Rh6 
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| Sep-05-13 | | capafan: <OhioChessFan>With only 30+% draw offers it did not make sense to me to play c4....a dead draw and not offer a draw. At least if we play a little further maybe we can show an obvious draw on the board...however, if Black can end up with more material in a drawn position (as you show in your diagram after h4), why should they accept any draw offer from us? They can likewise turn down our draw offer and reach a position where White is fighting for the draw...more of a ***win*** for them. |
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Sep-05-13
| | OhioChessFan: <capa> yeah, that's what I am thinking. A pawn down draw with White? I went into this with the thought that the Rxh5 line would give us a bit of an advantage, but not finding much after the Kg6 lines, and some lines we are struggling for a draw. If someone finds something fine, but I would be inclined now to play c4 and offer the draw rather than venture into a line that so far has not shown an advantage anywhere. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | cro777: <capafan: If we play a little further maybe we can show an obvious draw on the board.> In my opinion that should be our aim for the rest of the game. |
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Sep-05-13
| | OhioChessFan: Based on what we've seen, what's our bailout point? I think it may well be Black to call for the draw when they cubbyhole, but if not, what is our null move that shows we're ready for a draw? |
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| Sep-05-13 | | cro777: <What is our null move that shows we're ready for a draw?> We can simply select a line leading to an obviuos draw on the board. For instance, a line with the b4-break. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | cro777: In the case of 35.c4 I would select the following line 35.c4 Rc5 36.Kc3 g6 37.b4 axb4+ 38.Kxb4 Rc7 39.c5 f5 
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| Sep-05-13 | | blue wave:  I have wondered if there is any point in them trying to move their king to a4? Seems very slow though. It would place pressure on our a5 pawn and free their rook up to roam the board maybe? |
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Sep-05-13
| | AylerKupp: <cro77> Since in this position we would have to make a move along with our draw offer, we certainly don’t want to make a blunder (rules out 40.Ra7) or make a move that encourages them to continue playing. What move do you suggest we make that makes it even clearer that the game is a draw and that they should accept our draw offer? |
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| Sep-05-13 | | morfishine: Wow, 35.c4 is widening the gap, yet the draw offer is stagnant. Since we are now officially "Flying Over the Cuckoo's Nest", here's some 11th hour irrationality: I know its too late to effect the vote, but I was day dreaming about <35.Kd3> 35.Kd3 Rxb3 36.Kc4 Rb1 37.Rxa5 f6 38.Ra7+ Kf8 39.Ra2
click for larger viewThis varies from the other "trade the b-pawn for the a-pawn with our King in front of the c-pawn" lines: Black King is on the back rank and our 2nd rank is again protected Still a draw, but it squeezes one tempo out of the previous lines... ***** |
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| Sep-05-13 | | cro777: <AylerKupp> I would play 40.Kb5 (this is the best move) and offer a draw. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | capafan: <35.c4 Rc5 36.Kc3 g6 37.b4 axb4+ 38.Kxb4 Rc7 39.c5 f5 ==> I can live with this...we can propose a draw after 39.c5 |
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| Sep-05-13 | | WinKing: <morfishine: Wow, 35.c4 is widening the gap, yet the draw offer is stagnant. Since we are now officially "Flying Over the Cuckoo's Nest", here's some 11th hour irrationality:...> I think our voters may be nipping at the bottle of homemade šljivovica we had stashed away in case we pulled out a miracle victory...nostrovia! I don't know how else to explain it <morf>. ;) |
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| Sep-05-13 | | morfishine: <Winking> šljivovica sounds good! If I only didn't quit drinking. Well almost: 1-beer over the past 10-weeks as part of a diet...brutal yet effective I'm curious to see who's still playing on their end
***** |
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Sep-05-13
 | | Chessgames Challenge:
35.c4
FINAL VOTE TALLY:
| 35.c4 |
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14 | votes |
(46.7%) |
| 35.g3 |
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11 | votes |
(36.7%) |
| 35.Ra4 |
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4 | votes |
(13.3%) |
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total # of votes: 30
draw requests: 10 (33.3%)
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Sep-05-13
| | Chessgames Challenge:
35.c4
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| Sep-05-13 | | cro777: <I'm curious to see who's still playing on their end > It seems that DanLanglois is the most persistent. But of course their main analysts are kwid, YouRang and stunningmove. kwid was very strong correspondence player in the pre-computer era as well. So don't expect nothing but the strongest moves from their side. |
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Sep-05-13
 | | mistermac: mistermac: <morfishine: <<Winking>> šljivovica sounds good! If I only didn't quit drinking. Well almost: 1-beer over the past 10-weeks as part of a diet...brutal yet effective I'm curious to see who's still playing on their end> Perhaps we should slip them a Mickey Finn!
I was oiling the brain cells a few hours ago with Chianti. Or give them crates of Hemlock.
So! |
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| Sep-05-13 | | morfishine: <cro777> It wouldn't have surprised me if <Dan> had dropped out bored. Good for him he's stuck it out...Interesting From a rating standpoint, I was wondering about <Hanza>, <Kingscrusher>, <Boomie> & <Tabanus> although the players you mentioned, especially <kwid> and others, testify to Black's formidable lineup <mistermac> "Slipping a Mickey" only works in the movies when there's one person. Now if you can figure out how to slip the entire Black team a Mickey... :) ***** |
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Sep-05-13
| | OhioChessFan: <35.Kd3 Rxb3 36.Kc4 Rb1 > Rb7. I need to figure out how to dowload the spreadsheet so that I am not always working from scratch. |
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| Sep-05-13 | | morfishine: Ok, I was about to call it quits altogether, but I got one last plan and I'm not gonna haggle around with this draw til move 50+. In general, I think we can and should still attempt to put them in an awkward partial-zugzwang position Psychologically, <35.c4> may work to our advantage by lulling Black into a measure of complacency. They'll pencil in 35...Rc5 and hopefully go into hibernation. We need to figure out the most precise move-order that will present the most problems. We don't have time for tempo-wasting moves like <Ra1> now. We need to find the exact squares for our rook, King and pawns without the slightest doubt. We have four days. Who's with me?
***** |
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Sep-05-13
| | AylerKupp: <OhioChessFan> If you are running Windows and have Excel 2003 or higher all should have to do is click the entry for the ATSS in the Sticky and it will (or should) take you directly to RapidShare. Click on the "Download file" button and specify the folder where you want the file stored. After you have downloaded the file, unzip it and you should be good to go. If you have any problems, let me know. Of course, your "fun" is then just beginning. Read the 'Notes' tab for a description of the spreadsheet, its features, and how to use it. By the time that you have it all figured out the game will be over. What a great way to pass the time remaining! |
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Sep-05-13
| | AylerKupp: <morfishine> I'm with you! That should be enough to scare anyone. How was your first day in your new job? I hope that your new boss is not Alan Richmann. |
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