The World vs Arkadij Naiditsch (2014) Suffering from c6-ness

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The World vs Arkadij Naiditsch
"Suffering from c6-ness" (game of the day Dec-30-2014)
Chessgames Challenge (2014), chessgames.com, Jun-16
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense (C65) · 1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 501 OF 707 · Later Kibitzing>
Oct-10-14		DaringSpeculator: Wow!, the Hocus-Pocus lives on for at least four more days. A little reminder, the Hocus-Pocus line is <23...Nxb4 24. axb4 Rd4 25. Re2 Bh4 26. g3 Bg5 27. Bc2 Rf8> and the magic show doesn't start until 27...Rf8 is played. So he either has figured out what lies ahead and he is looking for bail-out points. In this regard, either 26...Be7 or 27...Rf3 are safer than 23...a5. Or he thinks that he has the upper hand and will outplay us in the endgame, being a pawn up and having got rid of our bishop pair. We will know the answer in 4 more moves. I don't think he has any black magic. He has no conterplay at all (an amazing feat by our team against a superGM!) and If we get to 27...Rf8, all the magic is ours...:-)

Oct-10-14		cormier: RV ... <Section A: 24.axb4 Hocus-Pocus lines> <Note these lines are out of date and need some re-work> [+0.00] d=30 24.axb4 Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf8 28.h4 Be7 29.Bb3+ Kh8 now (A) <30.b5> +0.11/28 30...Rb4 31.Be6 g5 32.hxg5 Rxb5 33.g6 and transpose into (B) below (B) [+0.08] d=32 <30.b5> g5 31.hxg5 Rb4 32.Be6 Rxb5 33.g6 Rd8 34.Rxa7 hxg6 35.Kh1 Rd1+ 36.Kg2 Kh7 37.Bc8 Rdd5 38.Rxb7 Rbc5 39.Ra7 Kh6 40.Kf3 Rxe5 41.Rxe5 Rxe5 42.Rxc7 Bc5 43.Rc6 Kg5 44.Re6 Rd5 45.Re4 31.h5 +0.38/29 31...Rb4** 32.Be6 Bc5* 33.b3 Rd4 34.Rc1 Bb6 35.Bc4 Bc5 36.e6 h6 37.e7 Re8 38.Bf7 Rxe7 39.Rxe7 Bxe7 40.Rxc7 Bd8 41.Rxb7 Bb6 42.Re7 Rd8 *32...Rxb5? 33.Rd1 Rb6 34.Bc4 Rb4 35.b3 +2.02/21 **31...Bc5 a) [+0.56] d=32 32.Rc1 (32.e6 draws, says kwid) b6 33.e6 Re8 34.Rf1 Rd3 35.Bc4 Rd4 36.b3 Be7 37.Rf7 h6 38.Kg2 Rd1 39.Ra2 Re1 40.Rxa7 Bd6 41.Ra2 Re3 b) [+0.61] d=35 32.Rc1 Rd3 33.Bc4 Rd7 34.Be6 Re7 35.Rxc5 Rxe6 36.Rxc7 Rb6 37.Kh3 h6 38.Rd2 Rxb5 39.Rdd7 Rg8 40.e6 Re5 41.Rxb7 Rxe6 42.Rxa7 Rb8 43.Rxg7 Rxb2 44.Rgc7 Rbe2 45.Rh7+ Kg8 46.Rag7+ Kf8 47.Rb7 (C) <30.b5> [+0.26] d=30 30...Bc5 31.Rc1 Rd3 32.Bc4 Rd7 33.Be6 Re7 34.Rxc5 Rxe6 35.Rxc7 Rb6 36.e6 Re8 37.Re5 h5 38.e7 Kg8 39.Kg2 Kf7 40.Kf3 a6 41.b4 axb5 42.Ke3 Kf6 43.Ke4 Rc6 44.Rxb7 Rc3

Oct-10-14		IECGdoc: When do we give a draw offer? Is it, when the majority of votes will vote for draw? Regards, Peter

Oct-10-14		truefriends: < IECGdoc: When do we give a draw offer? Is it, when the majority of votes will vote for draw? Regards, Peter> Yes!

Oct-10-14		YouRang: <DPLeo><Maybe now would be a good time to start working on 27... Rf3> You're welcome to it, but IMHO, it's the most dead of all the dead draws in the line. It's why I called it the party pooper line. Our main source of hope is that GMARK has, so far, avoided drawish looking lines -- and 27...Rf3 is definitely that. I really do hope that hocus pocus makes past move 27, because then (win or not) this game will really come alive. Oh yes: <24.axb4>

Oct-10-14		chrisowen: A clip had b4 motor as head in to a3 sob hook ja: ship cook linger true light as king to him thin hilight bash a kind dab bale aped barn cow b4 wayed said our cheap shot baste as racy back comp licked ha tide abated bat i middle stump back chin a man back recind good in la ship it hind maneovre a breast capture dutch here e5 bain if drive e6 stylee back on a circle competent in dense thicket hat i on lion back and accumulated rook do we tee d4 ok a doss dark seem vindicate enough hope either bind dead dote as have gothic scalp in d8 back winch am cride off b4 up shape band avowed a need sieved flour have ar would basic do fend recind i slide c6 do dint back part reed band so lid b4 in a bet eh hilight back be cod b4 and over drve hone love whoosh band bronzed over here dash in baffle d8 where to dense thicket again came mob in for bam clinch ado dint doth babel tower knight cad light hud b4 king to hush a mahajatra pin a jiffy oh door ja skim old dim d4 in over mop a query garrelous or bet b4 good feint rook wheel as i d4 mend d8 ajar bag again difficult next brave thought batch in he mash man fog b4 i know plans in tonnage d8 ave as wheel about recind on key b4.

Oct-10-14		iatelier: <DPLeo, RandomVisitor> from your forums and to other MWT (Member of World Team) there are many diff move orders after 32.h5!? [Event "d23 18min +0.27"] [Site "chessgames.com"] [Date "2014.09.23"] [White "DeepJuniorYokohama"] [Black "GMARK"] [ECO "C65"] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.O-O d6 6.c3 O-O 7.Nbd2 Ne7 8.d4 exd4 9.cxd4 Bb6 10.Re1 Bg4 11.h3 Bh5 12.a3 Bg6 13.Ba4 d5 14.e5 Ne4 15.Nxe4 dxe4 16.Nh4 Qxd4 17.Qxd4 Bxd4 18.Bg5 Nc6 19.Nxg6 fxg6 20.Rxe4 Bxf2+ 21.Kh2 Rf5 22.Bd2 22...Rd8 23.Bb4 23...Nxb4 24.axb4 Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf8 28.h4 Be7 29.Bb3+ Kh8 30.b5 ...Rb4 31.Be6 g5 32.h5 (there are many diff move orders) Bc5 33.Rd1 g4 34.Rd5 b6 35.Kg2 g6 36.Bd7 Rd8 37.e6 Be7 38.hxg6 hxg6 39.Rdd2 Rb3 40.Rc2 Kg7 41.Rxc7 click for larger view Black to move

Oct-10-14		MuzioFan: Hocus Pocus need not be flushed for a few more days! Voted <24.axb4>, of course.

Oct-10-14		YouRang: It would seem that 24...Rd4 is most probable. From the AT: <<YouRang> 08/30 Houdini_4_x64B @ 31 ply: +0.00 24...Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf8 28.h4 +0.49 24...c6 25.e6 Rb8 26.Rd1 Kf8 27.b5 Bc5 28.bxc6 +0.53 24...b5 25.Rd1 Rxd1 26.Bxd1 c5 27.Bg4 Kf7 28.Bxf5 === Analysis by Stockfish 5 64 (44-ply, 24 hours): 1. = (0.17): 24...Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 28.Rxa7 Rd2 29.Rxd2 Bxd2 30.Kg2 Re3 31.Rxb7 Kf8 32.Rb8+ Kf7 33.Rc8 Bxb4 34.Rxc7+ Kf8 35.e6 Rxe6 2. ² (0.50): 24...b5 25.Rd1 Rxd1 26.Bxd1 Bb6 27.e6 Kf8 28.Bg4 c5 29.Bxf5 gxf5 30.Rh4 c4 31.Rxh7 Bd4 32.Rh5 Be5+ 33.g3 Ke7 34.Rxf5 Kxe6 35.Rf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Bxb4 37.g4 c3 38.h4 a5 39.h5 Kd5 40.g5 (kutztown46)> ~~~~ However, my recollection is that the engines don't see the problem with 24...b5 right away. The AT also has this lower-ply analysis: <Analysis by Houdini 3 x64: depth=28 <WinKing> 8/23/14 (0.00) 24...Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 (0.00) 24...b5 25.g4 Rf3 26.Kg2 Rdf8 27.Bxb5 Rg3+ 28.Kh2 (0.21) 24...c6 25.e6 Rb8 26.Rd1 Kf8 27.g4 Rf6 28.g5 >

Oct-10-14		chesstoplay: < YouRang >, < I really do hope that hocus pocus makes past move 27... > I think we are already further along the < Hocus Pocus > than many expected! :)

Oct-10-14		YouRang: <chesstoplay><I think we are already further along the < Hocus Pocus > than many expected!> Yes, collectively it was improbable that all the moves in the line so far would be played. And yet, each move individually was quite reasonable (at least) and had a good probability of being played. That's what made the line our most attractive option after move 14.e5 -- and some might even say before. Certainly our chances of winning, if under 10% back on move 14, have improved considerably since.

Oct-10-14		optimal play: Kudos to GM Naiditsch! We have thrown down the gauntlet with 23.Bb4 and he has taken it up with 23...Nxb4 He would have known that by playing 23...a5 he could have coasted to a draw but instead has accepted our challenge! Now let's see just how far he is prepared to go...

Oct-10-14		YouRang: I'm currently poking through 26...Be7. So far I would say this: It may be drawable, but GMARK surely didn't play 24...Nxb4 because he thought 26...Be7 would be a nice line for black. The bigger hurdle ahead is getting him to continue with hocus pocus 27...Rf8 (not party pooper 27...Rf3).

Oct-10-14		Ron: I'm wondering how much GM Naiditsch is reliant on computers in this game. I would say that the more reliant he is on the computers, the more likely we will go into the Hokus Pokus line. And why would he be using computers a lot in this game, being a GM? Short answer: economizing on time and resources. Our esteemed opponent is pursuing a professional chess career. He might be spending more time in human analysis and research for a tournament, than for this game.

Oct-10-14		mistermac: Apart from it's merit, why is Rxb4 an "invalid" move? That is what the vote taking thingo is saying.

Oct-10-14		mistermac: But Rb4 is "fine".

Oct-10-14		OhioChessFan: Hocus Pocus, let's all focus. I wonder what the Chessbookie odds would have been on this line playing out 3 weeks ago.

Oct-10-14		YouRang: <mistermac> Looks like a bug. You sould report it to chessgames.com chessforum

Oct-10-14		OhioChessFan: From the Party Pooper Line: <Section D: 24.axb4 Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 [+0.12] d=30 28.Rxa7 Rxb4 29.h4 > Someone got a baseline for 29. Be4? Nothing at all on the AT.

Oct-10-14		OhioChessFan: More Party Pooper Line: <Section D: 24.axb4 Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3> <[+0.12] d=30 28.Rxa7 Rxb4 29.h4 Be3 30.Ra3 Rxb2 31.Kh3 Rf2 32.Rxf2 Bxf2 33.e6 Kf8 34.Rf3+ Ke7 35.Rxf2 c5 36.Kg4 Kxe6 > 36. Kg2 stops the King capturing our e Pawn since after Bf5+ the g Pawn doesn't capture the Bishop with check. Surely it's worth a look. click for larger view

Oct-10-14		mistermac: <You Rang>, I reported the matter to chessforum, and there is a man on the way with a gladstone bag to fix it, hopefully.

Oct-10-14		OhioChessFan: Not much of a look. I see why that doeesn't work now.

Oct-10-14		yskid: <Oct-10-14 premium member DaringSpeculator: Wow!, the Hocus-Pocus lives on for at least four more days.> Wow indeed!!< A little reminder, the Hocus-Pocus line is <23...Nxb4 24. axb4 Rd4 25. Re2 Bh4 26. g3 Bg5 27. Bc2 Rf8> and the magic show doesn't start until 27...Rf8 is played.>Important to remember!

Oct-11-14		lost in space: voted axb4. What else? Ahead with hocus pocus

Oct-11-14		John Mulder: Analysis from the chess engine <Komodo 8> [+0.16] <d=34> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 28.Rxa7 Rd2 29.Rxd2 Bxd2 30.Kg2 Re3 31.Rxb7 Kf8 32.Rxc7 Bxb4 33.g4 Rxe5 34.Kf3 Be7 35.Rc8+ Kf7 36.Bb3+ Kf6 37.h4 Rb5 38.Rc6+ Ke5 39.Re6+ Kd4 40.Rxe7 Rxb3+ 41.Kf4 Rh3 42.Kg5 h6+ 43.Kxg6 Rxh4 44.Kxg7 Kd3 45.Rb7 Kc4 46.Rf7 Rxg4+ 47.Kxh6 Rg3 48.Kh5 Rg2 49.Rc7+ Kd5 50.Rb7 Kc5 (0:49:50) 19917758kN [+0.17] <d=33> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 28.Rxa7 Rd2 29.Rxd2 Bxd2 30.Kg2 Re3 31.Rxb7 Kf8 32.Rxc7 Bxb4 33.g4 Rxe5 34.Kf3 Re1 35.Bd3 Bd6 36.Rb7 Rh1 37.Bc4 Rxh3+ 38.Ke4 Rh1 39.Rf7+ Ke8 40.Rxg7 Re1+ 41.Kd5 Re7 42.Rxe7+ Kxe7 43.Be2 Kd7 44.Bf3 Bf4 45.b4 Kc7 46.Be4 Kb6 47.Kc4 Be5 (0:40:22) 16004881kN [+0.23] <d=33> 24…Rd4 (0:25:37) 10131378kN [+0.35] <d=33> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 (0:16:50) 6619739kN [+0.23] <d=32> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf8 28.Bb3+ Kh8 29.b5 Rb4 30.Be6 Rxb5 31.h4 Bd8 32.Rxa7 Be7 33.Kg2 Rb4 34.Bd5 Rb8 35.Rc2 Rb5 36.Bf3 c6 37.Bxc6 Rxe5 38.Rxb7 Rxb7 39.Bxb7 Kg8 40.Ba6 Kf7 41.Bc4+ Kf8 42.Rf2+ Rf5 43.Rf3 Rxf3 44.Kxf3 Bd6 45.g4 Ke7 46.Ke4 Bg3 (0:12:56) 5056059kN [+0.24] <d=31> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 28.Rxa7 Rxb4 29.Kg2 Rf8 30.h4 Be7 31.Be4 Rb8 32.Bd5+ Kh8 33.Rc2 Bd8 34.Bc4 g5 35.h5 c6 36.b3 g4 37.Re2 Bb6 38.Ra4 Rxa4 39.bxa4 Bc5 40.a5 h6 41.e6 Be7 42.Rb2 Kg8 43.Be2 Kf8 44.Bxg4 Ra8 45.Rxb7 (0:08:59) 3490441kN [+0.27] <d=30> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf3 28.Rxa7 Rxb4 29.Kg2 Rf8 30.h4 Be7 31.Be4 Rb8 32.Bd5+ Kh8 33.Rc2 Bd8 34.Ra3 c6 35.Rb3 Be7 36.Rxb4 Bxb4 37.Bc4 Rf8 38.Rf2 Rd8 39.Bf7 b5 40.Re2 Be7 41.Kf3 Rf8 42.e6 Rd8 43.Re5 Rd3+ 44.Kf4 (0:07:38) 2949530kN [+0.33] <d=29> 24…Rd4 25.Re2 Bh4 26.g3 Bg5 27.Bc2 Rf8 28.h4 Be7 29.Bb3+ Kh8 30.b5 Rb4 31.Be6 Rxb5 32.Rd1 Rb6 33.Ba2 Rd8 34.Rxd8+ Bxd8 35.Rd2 Be7 36.Bf7 g5 37.Rd7 Bf8 38.e6 g6 39.e7 Rxb2+ 40.Kh3 Bxe7 41.Rxe7 gxh4 42.Kxh4 a5 43.Rxc7 a4 44.Kg5 Rb5+ 45.Kf6 Rf5+ 46.Ke7 b5 47.Ra7 Rg5 48.Kd6 Rxg3 49.Kc5 a3 50.Ba2 h5 51.Kxb5 h4 52.Kc5 (0:05:45) 2228587kN At <d=30> Komodo 8 changes from <27…Rf8> to <27…Rf3>, the so called <Party Pooper> line. I'll leave people to draw there on conclusions.

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