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| Oct-11-14 | | Pedro Fernandez: <<IECGdoc>: When do we give a draw offer?
Is it, when the majority of votes will vote for draw? Regards, Peter> <<truefriends>: < IECGdoc: When do we give a draw offer? Is it, when the majority of votes will vote for draw? Regards, Peter>
Yes!>
Yes! |
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| Oct-11-14 | | MuzioFan: <John Mulder>: At d=35 my SF5 advocates <27..Rf8> (analysis started at this very move), and so does H4 at d=31. My Komodo 6 indeed likes <27..Rf3> better, and already liked it at relatively low ply (something like 23) and hasn't changed its mind since. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | truefriends: Just put the "hocus-pocus"-mainline in my latest DV of SF. After <24. axb4 Rd4 25. Re2 Bh4 26. g3 Bg5 27. Bc2 Rf8 28. h4 Be7 29. Bb3+ Kh8 30. b5 Rb4 31. Be6 g5 32. h5 Bc5 33. Rd1 Rd4 34. Rxd4 Bxd4 35. Kg2 h6 36. Bd7 Bc5 37. Rc2 Rd8 38. Be6 Bb6 39. Bf7> it has a problem with <39... Rd3> and suggests <39... Rd1> as an improvement. The line in the <AT> after <39... Rd1> leads to a draw. So <DS> what do you have in your bag of tricks after this move?! ;-) |
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| Oct-11-14 | | MuzioFan: <truefriends>: I have <34.Rc1>, not <34.Rxd4>. But I could be mistaken. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | truefriends: <Muziofan>
http://www.jepflast.com/chesstree/n... <YouRang> 8/20 This is <DaringSpeculator>'s line: <22. Bd2!> Rd8 23. Bb4 Nxb4 24. axb4 Rd4 25. Re2 Bh4 26. g3 Bg5 27. Bc2 Rf8 28. h4 Be7 29. Bb3+ Kh8 30. b5 Rb4 31. Be6 g5 32. h5 Bc5 (32. .. Rxb5 33. Rd1 Rb6 34. Bc4 Rb4 35. b3) 33. Rd1 Rd4 34. Rxd4 Bxd4 35. Kg2 h6 36. Bd7 Bc5 37. Rc2 Rd8 38. Be6 Bb6 39. Bf7 Rd3 40. Bg6 Re3 41. Rd2 c5 42. Rf2 Kg8 43. Bf7+ Kf8 44. Bc4+ Ke8 45. e6 Re5 46. Rf7 g4 47. Kf2 Rxh5 48. Ke3 Bd8 49. b6 Bg5+ 50. Kd3 axb6 51. Bb5+ Kd8 52. Rd7+ Ke8 53. Rxg7+ Kd8 54. Rd7+ Ke8 55. Ke4 - with claim that white is winning. This is my source... But maybe I missed some improvements. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | MuzioFan: I believe that <DS> stated that <34.Rc1> was an improvement over his old line, and that this move now is the new main line. I certainly get better positions after this move. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | francois81: 23.Bb4 was the weakest move in the game... still don't undestand... lost a strong bishop, and made a double pawn. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | MuzioFan: <francois81>: If you don't understand the move I recommend you read the analysis of the other players of the world team. There's about 500 pages of it, but most of it is important. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | RandomVisitor: <francois81>See my forum header for analysis that shows we are steering him into a trap in an otherwise drawn position. Why not have some fun? |
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| Oct-11-14 | | chesstoplay: Hocus Pocus is the best < WT > thing since the Monad Trap!! < yskid >
< A little reminder, the Hocus-Pocus line is <23...Nxb4 24. axb4 Rd4 25. Re2 Bh4 26. g3 Bg5 27. Bc2 Rf8> and the magic show doesn't start until 27...Rf8 is played.> > <<< Important to remember! >>> Remembering the team's effort for the < Monad Trap >... A nice general review from < GoldenKnight > years later... < Jun-11-09 GoldenKnight: No question is silly. I only came on in the middle of that game, but I can tell you that no, once Nickel deviated from standard opening lines in a self-admitted experiment it was all downhill from there. The "Monad trap" (which he did not fall into) was set, we forced him into a beautiful (for us) Knight's tour, then a series of devastating "quiet" moves and the coup de grace. At one point it appeared that our Bishop was irretrievably locked in on the Q-side (there was much hand-wringing on that one), but it later became a key player and went out in a blaze of glory. > And the World Team's work showed up in GM play...
< Feb-23-09 Topalov vs Kamsky, 2009 < whiteshark >: Heeh, did anybody notice that Topalov played the <Monad trap> moves b6/ d4? > |
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| Oct-11-14 | | zsoydd: voted: 24.axb4
23.Bb4 Nxb4!??!
sloppy analysis or superior judgement? |
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Oct-11-14
 | | chessgames.com: Sorry about the problem with <Rxb4> — the problem is fixed now, vote for it if you think it's the best move. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | kwid: <zsoydd:> <23.Bb4 Nxb4!??!> <sloppy analysis or superior judgment?> Would you not have taken the Bishop in any blitz game? After discarding Nxe5 pawn grab which gets too difficult to assess after Bb3+ or even g4. It certainly would have been my choice based on as < francois81:> pointed out the loss of a strong bishop and double pawns with no threats in sight. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | YouRang: <zsoydd: voted: 24.axb4
23.Bb4 Nxb4!??!
sloppy analysis or superior judgement?>
I believe the correct merit evaluation symbols are:
23...Nxb4?!?@*%#?$! |
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| Oct-11-14 | | truefriends: <kwid: Our applied game strategy certainly lacks clarity for such a high profile event. As a potential future learning reference it should be high lighted that the opening goal was to refute the C67 ELO main line. Later discovery of this erroneous assumption led to the adoption of C65 ELO known as a solid defense with an almost assured draw outcome.> Don't forget to mention we also misplayed the C65 resulting in an absolutely equal middlegame. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | YouRang: <Team consent was then reluctantly formed to aim for endgame positions with a disrespectful assumption of our GM opponent's ability contrary to our previous encounters.> I don't think any disrespect was involved. It's just a matter of aiming for a position that seems to offer the best chances for a winning outcome. After 14.e4, that position was the one found by <DaringSpeculator> in what we now call the hocus pocus line. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | YouRang: <kwid> BTW, I won't dispute your comments about the opening. Probably it wasn't the best we could have done. What's done is done: Learn from it and move on as a wiser player. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | DPLeo: <YouRang: <kwid> BTW, I won't dispute your comments about the opening. Probably it wasn't the best we could have done. What's done is done: Learn from it and move on as a wiser player.> I think those of us that are still here have learned and are wiser. The problem is the 250 or so voters who are not here now, not learning, not any wiser, and will be back for the first 5 moves or so of the next game. We need a way to address this phenomena or no amount of opening preparation and planning will matter. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | kwid: <YouRang:>
<- the best chances for a winning outcome. After 14.e4,- was the one found by <DaringSpeculator>At the time of his discovery our engines evaluations indicated that a draw was inevitable. Thus there was no reason for us to assume that our GM opponent did not have the same data. Instead of the Bb4/Rf8 line we should have played the most solid move order and accept a draw and not going on a fishing expedition diluting our Team's thinking process. I emphasize the importance to always accept that our opponent has
the latest theoretical position assessment and will select the line continuation with a move order generated with deep ply engine evaluation. Our winning strategy must be based on the ability to improve on the best known positions still containing an unclear assessment as well as deep engine analysis exceeding our opponents search horizon. The strength of our diversity consisting of a wide variety of experiences has and will be a challenge for obtaining consensus for goal setting. Unless we can present convincing arguments about our individual shortcoming to play at a GM level we have to struggle to keep playing at a lower level closer to our individual ratings with engine assistants. |
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Oct-11-14
 | | mistermac: Dear old Chessgames.com has fixed the Rxb4 thing, but there was no way I would vote for it, as my ancient perhysteric engine gave it a very bad eval, and we cannot have that in the centaur age. |
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Oct-11-14
 | | chrisowen: Dab b4 hand basted bald pate again e6 stays put in dank and dusty cellar lewd gesture g8 mould a gate bladdered for clinch amp i f5 happy to say b4 lands a punch a carp in cad do the math effect burning d8 effigy rates effront efface up in fiefdom a tour d8 rook feel fine safe f5 etch in sketch a wave in whale e6 tail ok etc pocket rocket off up to flay f5 verdict is cart a keys effront in sense at b4 flow i beans c6 south park again foot the bus effect bank dank as put i lily c6 dank add a tie d4 aim safe dad d4 ankle for bones and b4 thigh c6 off in lay b4 amp you land fasten anchor a dance in court round cart before the horse. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | JASAHA: Can GM ARK read our posts? If so Hocus Pocus will become Exhocus exposed :0 . |
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| Oct-11-14 | | cormier: he may be cook by now ... |
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| Oct-11-14 | | truefriends: < mistermac: Dear old Chessgames.com has fixed the Rxb4 thing> But you can still vote <Rb4>, even if it is an invalid move. Must be still something wrong with the software. |
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| Oct-11-14 | | YouRang: Cg has always permitted invalid moves, which is undesirable. But preventing legal moves is much worse and completely unacceptable. |
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